The dance is coming to an end...

[JayH]

Also, about the Skype thing; I've mentioned before, one of my wife's best friend's in Russia cannot afford an internet connection that is good enough to support video. Another friend doesn't have a webcam. Although it's getting more normal to have internet and the accessories to support Skype, it's still possible to find people without for whatever reason.

This is an extremely important point--easy access to internet,computer,skype--- is not universal.
On this forum-- I saw Steve in StPet ridiculing the possibility of a girl not having connection.In another thread  MsA  said that in hometown thay have no easy access. From my experience and knowledge there can be quite a variation on how easy it is to access.
The point being-- drawing the scam conclusion based on part issues is nonsense-it only goes to show the ignorance of guys about things FSU-in this case in Ukraine.

Ade--just for you and a few others--my first few days on a forum were coloured when I was called a liar--over my comment that not everyone had easy access to internet!!It was of course A Fi ( who has never been In Ukraine-- for Boe--he says so himself now !!)-- others followed  that false accusation-- so I find it truly amusing when you made that comment above.

[Patagonie]

I have met two totally and perfectly genuine women (enough time to say that they were genuine) who were not having internet. Both because they were too far from the city.
So, if a girl don't have internet it is an orange flag, not a red one.
You have to search more to draw a definitive conclusion.

[mendeleyev]

I would agree it odd for a guy to expect a family introduction on his first week visit which seems to be the average visit length but if they're making serious progress then the lady may want such an introduction sooner than later. As Daveman says, she shouldn't feel pressured but frankly given what I know and have experienced in-country, if there isn't an introduction at some reasonable point the a big red flag would go up for me personally.

I think it just as strange and idiotic for a guy to arrange marriage on the first week but we all know that it happens. At no point should a woman be pressured to introduce the family as there is no point if there is no connection to go further.

It is idiotic however not to factor in environment, and family is included in that, into a part of the final decision. That is as obvious as deciding not to consider manners while watching the future love of your life pick her teeth at the dinner table. Family is not the only consideration but in a normal courtship perhaps dozens or even hundreds of things can go into a decision to marry.

One thing I've observed in a vast number of families is not only a love of travel but also the pride in hosting guests. Over time I've been the guest in many a home, from wealthy to poor, and the one constant is that FSU folk like to host guests from abroad or even the near abroad. A Friday or Saturday night dinner invitation turns into a wee hours of the morning event as they want to know what it was like growing up in the West, what were your perceptions of the CCCP then and what you think of their country now. What did you do as a child, what was school like, where did you travel on holidays, what kinds of cars has your family owned, did you have pets and what kind of pets, what are your hobbies, etc.

Those aren't questions just for a guy who is seeing their daughter, those are questions they're asking any guest who is from abroad. Just because hosting foreign guests isn't something you do in your country shouldn't mean that you discount the practice in her culture. Not all questions are meant to pry for status either. I've had loads of questions about cars and most of the time they're from guys who are genuinely interested in the differences between cars especially during the Soviet period. Today they have the same cars although the model names are often localized.

[mendeleyev]

Mendy, your story is hilarious! 

Thanks, Slumba. 

[Ade]

This is an extremely important point--easy access to internet,computer,skype--- is not universal.
On this forum-- I saw Steve in StPet ridiculing the possibility of a girl not having connection.In another thread  MsA  said that in hometown thay have no easy access. From my experience and knowledge there can be quite a variation on how easy it is to access.
The point being-- drawing the scam conclusion based on part issues is nonsense-it only goes to show the ignorance of guys about things FSU-in this case in Ukraine.

Ade--just for you and a few others--my first few days on a forum were coloured when I was called a liar--over my comment that not everyone had easy access to internet!!It was of course A Fi ( who has never been In Ukraine-- for Boe--he says so himself now !!)-- others followed  that false accusation-- so I find it truly amusing when you made that comment above.

Lacking easy access and no access are 2 different things however. There is usually the possibility of using a friends or a family member's connection to use Skype (my wife's best friend sometimes visits my MIL and calls from there to get video) or, worse case, an internet cafe.

[die_cast]

I have met two totally and perfectly genuine women (enough time to say that they were genuine) who were not having internet. Both because they were too far from the city.
So, if a girl don't have internet it is an orange flag, not a red one.
You have to search more to draw a definitive conclusion.

OP's girl lives in the city. And gets internet only in cafe. I wonder what kind of city is that if you can have there internet in cafe, but can't have it at home or at work.
When I said about red flag, I was talking about girls who can afford to buy laptop and live in cities.
But nowdays we have mobile internet, it's possible to use internet with your cell phone, also you can have Skype or What'sApp on your phone.

[Shadow]

OP's girl lives in the city. And gets internet only in cafe. I wonder what kind of city is that if you can have there internet in cafe, but can't have it at home or at work.
When I said about red flag, I was talking about girls who can afford to buy laptop and live in cities.
But nowdays we have mobile internet, it's possible to use internet with your cell phone, also you can have Skype or What'sApp on your phone.

However if you do not want to be bothered day and night by stalking admirers, it can be useful to deny having it.

[die_cast]

I would agree it odd for a guy to expect a family introduction on his first week visit which seems to be the average visit length but if they're making serious progress then the lady may want such an introduction sooner than later.

There is one more reason for lady do not introduce a man to her family during his first visit.
Sometimes it happens, unfortunatelly, may be you, guys, can explain us the reason of such men's behaviour:
a guy comes to visit, everything goes well, man and woman like each other, enjoy spending time together, feel themselves in love with each other (at least, the lady feels that way about their relationship). Then he back home to his country... and dissapear. Doesn't answer sms, calls, email, doesn't show up in Skype, or even block her on Facebook...  Acts like this story and relationship is over for him. Without any explanations.
Or another variant, not so negative: he tells her that during his visit he understood they are not good for each other, but was not able to tell her this in person so he just acted like everything fine between them and had good time with her.

Now let's imagine that during that visit the lady introduced him to her family and friends, and they all liked him and were sure the lady and her man are in serious relationship, leading to marriage. 
And now she needs to tell her family and friends that all was an illusion and her big mistake, that he didn't have serious intentions about her, etc. All that very disgraceful situation for a lady, if you understand. And now not just she, but all her family and friends know about her failure. And probably they would recommend her to quit her search for husband abroad.

[die_cast]

However if you do not want to be bothered day and night by stalking admirers, it can be useful to deny having it.

Any such programms have a funtion to block or ignore people who you don't like, don't see any problem here.
Also I'd not consider such lie as a good sign.

[Chicagoguy]

First visit - she came to meet me in Moscow.
Second visit - we met in Moscow on way to Turkey. On way home we met her 30 year old daughter who lives there.
Third trip - we were married and went to her home town. Met rest of family and friends then.

[CanadaMan]

First visit - she came to meet me in Moscow.
Second visit - we met in Moscow on way to Turkey. On way home we met her 30 year old daughter who lives there.
Third trip - we were married and went to her home town. Met rest of family and friends then.

Very efficient!
Two key factors were at play.
1. The long distance part of it (need to speed things up in general).
2. The age part of it (not exactly spring chickens with oodles of time to kill).

[Daveman]

I agree if the trip is for one week or ten days.


If the trip is substantially longer and things are progressing nicely then
bringing friends and family into the mix makes sense.


Udachi !


Bill

I don't disagree with that, Bill.  Nor do I think family/friends should not be met on the first visit of less than 10 days.  It's up to the couple to ascertain with what they are comfortable in relation to their "relational" environment.  When she is comfortable with expanding his circle of her acquaintances, friends, or family, then that's when she'll do it. 


Okay, there was an idiot misguided one who used to post here that it was good to force a woman into picking up the financial burden for various aspects of his visit as proof of her sincerity.  I assert that the test is invalid as it only proves that his behavior is rude and stupid.  This "meet the friends by a certain day" as a test of her sincerity proves what exactly? 


Yeah, meeting friends and family is cool, great, wonderful, and generally involves a massive volume of food and alcohol.. hey, I'm all for that...  but certainly, unless one is oblivious, there are other more obvious and telling indicators of relationship problems than a lack of familiar introductions.

[Dreamscometrue]

Hey Guys,

I know I am new here but could not resist a comment regarding the internet.      My Fiance is in Hkarkov and works a 10 hour day.   She did not have internet in her apartment until I purchased a laptop for her and paid for the internet to be connected.      These items for single mums are simply a luxury and as they work long hours .... to expect them to go to an internet cafe which can be a bus trip from where they live and not at the corner store as they often are in the west is a bit hard.   What we take for granted is in another world to many of the ladies in Ukraine and Russia.  Thanks for listening.

[Chicagoguy]

Certainly possible. I sent my wife [girlfriend] an old used IBM Thinkpad and she used it every day for 1 year to write me.

[calmissile]

There is one more reason for lady do not introduce a man to her family during his first visit.
Sometimes it happens, unfortunatelly, may be you, guys, can explain us the reason of such men's behaviour:
a guy comes to visit, everything goes well, man and woman like each other, enjoy spending time together, feel themselves in love with each other (at least, the lady feels that way about their relationship). Then he back home to his country... and dissapear. Doesn't answer sms, calls, email, doesn't show up in Skype, or even block her on Facebook...  Acts like this story and relationship is over for him. Without any explanations.
Or another variant, not so negative: he tells her that during his visit he understood they are not good for each other, but was not able to tell her this in person so he just acted like everything fine between them and had good time with her.

Now let's imagine that during that visit the lady introduced him to her family and friends, and they all liked him and were sure the lady and her man are in serious relationship, leading to marriage. 
And now she needs to tell her family and friends that all was an illusion and her big mistake, that he didn't have serious intentions about her, etc. All that very disgraceful situation for a lady, if you understand. And now not just she, but all her family and friends know about her failure. And probably they would recommend her to quit her search for husband abroad.

Your last explanation is perfectly logical, for either party.  The embarassment if it does not work out, is reason enough to not want to introduce someone you barely know to your family or close friends.  IMO it only becomes a red flag after you are comfortable with each other and have both decided to proceed with the relationship.

[southernX]

DCT

 just a thought for you regards the internet , your lady would be an exception not having the internet on in kharkiv , not having it is rare ime there

ime there most people have it , it is very cheap , and affordable , more so than australia even for single mums
even laptops are cheaper than here for most  models ,

on our last recent trip it is clear that the city is moving forward with development , big improvements all over can easily be seen as the people / economy improves from what it was several years ago

[steveboy]

DCT

 just a thought for you regards the internet , your lady would be an exception not having the internet on in kharkiv , not having it is rare ime there

ime there most people have it , it is very cheap , and affordable , more so than australia even for single mums
even laptops are cheaper than here for most  models ,

on our last recent trip it is clear that the city is moving forward with development , big improvements all over can easily be seen as the people / economy improves from what it was several years ago

I guess they will not need a foreign husband soon! then what will everyone do? 500 men to 1 women:)

[die_cast]

Hey Guys,

I know I am new here but could not resist a comment regarding the internet.      My Fiance is in Hkarkov and works a 10 hour day.   She did not have internet in her apartment until I purchased a laptop for her and paid for the internet to be connected.      These items for single mums are simply a luxury and as they work long hours .... to expect them to go to an internet cafe which can be a bus trip from where they live and not at the corner store as they often are in the west is a bit hard.   What we take for granted is in another world to many of the ladies in Ukraine and Russia.  Thanks for listening.

Luxury?
So how much did you pay for internet to be connected?

IDK about Ukraine, but in Russia if you have a phone at home (Rostelecom), you can have internet. And it's not luxury even for single mums.

Домашний Интернет от Ростелеком - это безлимитный круглосуточный доступ в сеть на комфортной для Вас скорости по доступной цене.
Вам нужно просто выбрать тариф:

Тариф до 10 Мбит/с - 385 руб/мес

Also at least once a year they give us opportunity to get internet at home for free, if a girl have no money but have desire to have internet it's possible to get it for free and then just pay about 13$ every month for using it. Luxury?

[Muzh]

Also at least once a year they give us opportunity to get internet at home for free, if a girl have no money but have desire to have internet it's possible to get it for free and then just pay about 13$ every month for using it. Luxury?

This was one accomplishment from my good bud Terry Hallman working with both Goldilock and Yanukonvict's government to set up People's Net in UA.

Terry, RIP my friend.

[Shadow]

Hey Guys,

I know I am new here but could not resist a comment regarding the internet.      My Fiance is in Hkarkov and works a 10 hour day.   She did not have internet in her apartment until I purchased a laptop for her and paid for the internet to be connected.      These items for single mums are simply a luxury and as they work long hours .... to expect them to go to an internet cafe which can be a bus trip from where they live and not at the corner store as they often are in the west is a bit hard.   What we take for granted is in another world to many of the ladies in Ukraine and Russia.  Thanks for listening.

To be honest where I am currently living finding in internet cafe takes a trip of at least an hour. However internet by mobile comes at Eur 0,50 per day....

[2tallbill]

Hey Guys,

I know I am new here but could not resist a comment regarding the internet.      My Fiance is in Hkarkov and works a 10 hour day.   She did not have internet in her apartment until I purchased a laptop for her and paid for the internet to be connected.      These items for single mums are simply a luxury and as they work long hours .... to expect them to go to an internet cafe which can be a bus trip from where they live and not at the corner store as they often are in the west is a bit hard.   What we take for granted is in another world to many of the ladies in Ukraine and Russia.  Thanks for listening.

You've met her or she wouldn't be your fiancée. Once you've met several times, buying her things that
you both need is part of the journey. The OP is spoofing about a Hairy Boris type fake.

Udachi!