I wonder...

[Bruno]

I just want to say that there is no so diferences between russian men and western men.

"Crowded housing and lack of privacy contributed heavily to the divorce rate, especially for couples forced to live with the parents of one spouse. Drunkenness and infidelity were other major causes. Divorce procedures were relatively simple, although courts generally attempted to reconcile couples. Custody of children normally was awarded to the mother."

Maybe at the level of drink and infidelity, Western man are enough different of russian man...

"Infidelity is common in Russia. Women outnumber men, and a guy can easily find somebody for a relationship. Sleeping around is a kind of honor for a man. Probably that's why Russians didn't think it was much of a deal when they heard about Clinton's sex affair with Monica. Some Russian men joke: "The only good thing about Russia is girls - beautiful, gentle and accessible". Many men in Russian believe they should be allowed to have as many mistresses as they want and are often emotionally and physically abusive."

"Drinking problem exists in other countries as well, but not on such large scale. People are so accustomed to that misfortune in Russia, that if a husband doesn't drink, he is considered almost an angel, even if his character is far from perfect."

But maybe infidelity is normal  when you read the rapport of a woman who is psychologist of a psychoneurological center  : Natalia Lisenkova

"It is a great mistake for women to think that men are always guilty when they have a love affair on the side. If a man is guilty, it is because he is a polygamous being. It has always been a male's commitment to inseminate as many females as possible. Natalia Lisenkova believes that male unfaithfulness is usually caused by boredom and monotony of their family lives. Not all women understand that they should permanently spin the web of "man-woman" relations.... However, a woman should not think that her appearance is the only reason for her man's unfaithfulness. Men need attention and caress. A man can often leave his beautiful wife and start living with a woman who can hardly be called pretty. As a rule, women do not understand that men simply need a little tenderness and understanding.... It has already become a tradition in Russian society: the unfaithfulness is the priority of men. It is harder for men to endure women's unfaithfulness. A husband may discover a strong need in his wife if he learns of her romantic adventures on the side. Women have become a lot more liberated in relations with men, the female unfaithfulness is not shocking anymore. However, they do not become happier because of the liberation. As a rule, unfaithfulness is common for unconfident women. They usually try to prove themselves that they are still sexually appealing. A self-sufficient woman knows what she is worth. She leads a quiet life and forgives her husband's unfaithfulness."

http://society.pravda.ru/society/2003/8/81/324/13992_izmena.html

Really strange... infidelity is one of reason of divorce but it seem that this comportment is normal in Russia, same for psy... and they almost accuse the woman to be the reason of infidelity...

About western man, i go never say that infidelity don't exist but it is more exception... and it is a great difference between western man and russian man... by us, infidelity is cultural something bad.

 

[Elen]

 

just want to say that there is no so diferences between russian men and western men.

Fiorella meant there was no difference in males' wishes (but not in abbilities, behaviour and qualities )

 

[Elen]

Photo Guy??? What about "Moscow doesn't believe in tears"?? Are you "pass" with answer?

(there is  little chance you would read that on Russian but any way there is a scenario

http://lib.chistopol.ru/read.php?id=5812&page=4

[Photo Guy]

Elen,
What are you asking me? That's a good movie. For me, it has
universal themes, not Russian themes. The separation of classes
by social status, wealth. The values of loyalty and devotion, in
contrast to considerations about economic or social status.
Tell me about The Scenario.   Doug, only fluent in English

[Todd]

Alot of interesting things in this thread that I thought that I would respond to....

First, I'm not sure if this is a sign of the superficiality of AW's, but my dating life dramatically improved after spending more time at the gym and developing six pack abs.  

Second, I believe that the FSU is undergoing tremendous social upheaval since 1991.  (I'm sure that no one would disagree with that.)  Thus, to say RW that or RW this is relatively meaningless.  Perhaps, those that came of age prior to 1989 have a fairly uniform set of beliefs, but I'm not even sure if that is the case.  

Third, my profession is the systematic quantification of risk.  In decision analysis, there is a distinction between the big "D" life decisions and the little "d" financial ones.  Deciding whom to marry is definitely a big "D" decision.  Trying to look at odds, etc. is relatively meaningless.  The focus should always be on the person and  what your heart is telling you.

 

[Elen]

Photo Guy I asked you that

- There are three women in that film with identical start positions at the begining of their life in big city and different fates in the end. That difference of their fates was the result of their personalities and priorities  of goals in life. And those three type of wowmen cover almost all varieties of RW:D (with more or less accuracy).

So my question was

How do you see your Larisa? What type of character is more close to her? Who does she sympathize with? And how does she see the "ideal male" Gosha :Dthe main female personage found in the end of film?


PS Tell me about The Scenario That is the scenario of the film we discuss. That's for those who study Russian and like to read scripts (rather helpfull in studing foriegn language) but not only see movie)


PSS Perhaps, those that came of age prior to 1989 have a fairly uniform set of beliefs

And perhaps you suppose those who came of age in democracy times use to change thier mind like weathercocks under wind ,

[Photo Guy]

Elen,
I think that is one of the most interesting things you have written.
I appreciate it. (I own a number of movie scripts.) I will think it over.  
         Doug

[Fiorella]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Fiorella,
I sort of get the impression that Russian men take women for granted. They assume that they are always available and willing to do things for them. You have confirmed that idea for me. We AM are trained
by AW to feel like we are not quite worthy of being with them. This is more true of a beautiful AW. So that is very different from RW.

Exactly what I wanted to say.

It looks to me like western men can give RW what they want, more respect and a feeling of being valued, which they may not get from a RM.

RW expect to get it and often get it from their western men but in many cases they get some bad ones who expect that RW will work for hi could pay his loans and even child support to his kids from some previous marriages. And not ask anything for that because she must be happy for he rescued her from her terrible country.

[Elen]

What??? How is it over??  I want  answers for my questions:?

Let ask Larisa, I'm just dieing about curiousity what she would say what role she try on herself :? You can't be such cruel to me:D

[Photo Guy]

RW can be so 'impatient'.
I must think about it. My brain may not be as big as yours, so
it requires 'mulling over', contemplation. It is not an easy question,
because I have never looked into her eyes to see the motivations
of her soul. I'll think out loud. I know she lives in the MOST POLLUTED city in the former Soviet Union. She has not mentioned that, so that could be deception or it could be a sense of pride in her home town. Mariupol. So, how do I know? I know I am not happy when people tell me how bad the air quality is here in Phoenix. It is true, but I do not want to hear it. If I email-date a woman in bucolic Beverly Hills, would I tell her I hate working 13 hours a day, Phoenix is filthy, and I am too ______ for her? There are shades of gray, when it comes to motivation. Should I tell her I like her youth because it makes me feel like constantly having sex, like a 'healthy' addiction? That is true, but it is not as important as honesty and loyalty and devotion and love. You realize, it is not that easy to see, whether or not her primary motivation is money and social status. With emails, I can only see her words. They tell me she wants to have a family and a cozy home and 'live for her family'. She is lying, or...she is honest. I must look into her eyes to see. I must see her body language. If you read my posts, you will see that  it is a big question for me and others: What is her motivation? It could be 70% love and a happy romance, 30% materialism and social status. She likes that movie. I will question her about it, in depth. And I will think more about it. I am not going to assume the worst. I am not going to assume she is a complete materialist.  Doug

[Elen]

:XMy 4th attempt to post something:X:X (i'm about bloody internrt connection)

 

You see Photo Guy I try to figurate out some other thing. Now I'm talking about not her own motivation but about her thoughts about that movie. That's all. Nothing more.

But it would be just interesting to know how she sees that story. Because I think it's rather hard to understand if someone speaks truth or lie about his/her motivation when he/she speaks about himself personal. Nobody would say bad things about himself and very often people don't try on themselves various difficult situations.


So one of the ways to understand what someone has in his mind is to discuss various literature and movie stories (or stories from life of their friends;) or some others pople. But pity no one of your brides post their thought here) with scenarios witch probably may wait you in future. That's why I '. so " impatient " with getting her views at that movie. Pity you most probably has not idea about one other our well know movie " Frozen cherry " about RW's fates and ways of choices they do in order to get simple women's happiness.

 

[Photo Guy]

Email with Larisa is rather slow. I will discuss that movie with her and let you know. I'll see if I can find Frozen Cherry too! Thanks.  Doug

[Elen]

It 'scalled "Зимняя вишня" on Russian

[ConnerVT]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Of course, I am just guessing at all of this, because I have never been married to a RW. I am just now learning about them.

And you STILL want to marry one?

(Sorry, I JUST couldn't resist... j/k, ladies... )

[Fiorella]

It 'scalled "Зимняя вишня" on Russian

May be, "Winter cherry" then on English?

[Elen]

Yes Literally it would be translated like Winter Cherry (I just recalled how her friend described that words in the film and according that explanation it woud be more close to "frozen". But it does not matter as it seems that film has not transalation on English)

[Photo Guy]

You see I'm not such informed in your classification of Russian women and understand not clear what 's that difference among gold-diggers, scammers, visa-whores and hell-know-who-ever.

For me (arrogant moscovite;)) such gilrs were always called LIMITA (now,now,now don't kill me, Russians, who do know the meaning of that word:D) - a province girls who are may be have not at all such "black hearts" but they tired to live with that bored not rich life in their town and want something better in that life. And they are ready to do MANY for that.
 And to say some kind words to foriegn guy is not too big crime is not? (never mind how she really feels about him. She will understand that later - in America. But just NOW and just HERE she does love him:D)
On other hand American guy wants to hear all those kind words as well. So they match each others How things will turn later, who do know??:?

I just re-read this. It sums things up well. I'm swimming through murky waters and will soon look into her eyes to get a glimpse of the truth, from Province Town.

I am not sure what character she most resembles from that movie.
She is definitely deeper and more complex than the simple character, 'Luida', who deceived and married the sports star.
I think she is afraid to be totally honest, for fear of scaring me away.
She is very cautious and considerate. Her caution has masked her
personality to a degree. I also sense that she would rather 'omit'
than lie directly. In fact, I have never caught her lying. When I told her a short phone call cost me 300 grivnas, she said she did not know if that was an unreasonably high price. Was that a deception?
I do not know from my vantage point. She likes 'Moscow Doesn't
Believe In Tears' and maybe that reflects her identification with the
main character, who values truth.    Doug

[TheArrow]

"Moscow doesn't believe in tears" was The First Russian movie rewarded with Oscar. But Russian Culture Commitee + Communist Government did not give Oscar to Vladimir Men'shov (the director of this movie). They decided to keep Oscar in Culture Commitee.

[Elen]

The first was documental russian film "defeat of germans army near Moscow" which got our first Oscar in 1942

[Photo Guy]

A month ago, Larisa recommended a movie called 'Office Affair'.
I haven't seen it, yet.
She likes Gone With The Wind. I sometimes call her 'Scarlet'
and she calls me 'Rhett'.

I also really like the recent movie, 'Two Brothers and a Bride',
about two brothers living on a farm, who go to St. Petersburg to find a
house-maid (wife) who can cook and clean for them, since their
mother died. The plot revolves around a 'romance tour'.
A very well-written and acted movie.

'Solaris' was re-made with
George Clooney. The original Russian version is excellent.
Awesome abstract soundtrack and gorgeous photography.
Directed by Tarkovsky    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069293/

[2tallbill]

WM are attracted to women from the FSU because desireable ones are AVAILABLE.

A FSU woman of a given age, education, facial looks, and body looks is more AVAILABLE to the WM than is the case with a WW of the same characteristics.

Why is the FSU woman with the same characteristics as a WW more AVAILABLE to a WM?  It is ECONOMICS stupid.

Ding, ding, ding
The answer is here