What to do when she doesn't want to be with you

[viking]

Hello Everyone.
 

First time here but not a newbie.

I have a very intereting, and somewhat  sad situation and could use some advice.I am in my mid 50's, divorced, kids, child support, alimony and all that jazz and working my butt off to keep it all together. I live alone in a nice house on the beach in NY. I have been on the internet for awhile, learned my lessons well, went to Bulgaria to meet a nice woman from Belarus but no chemistry.

Went back to my search and came across a woman, divorced, late 30's with a 16 YO daughter. We talked for awhile and then I went to Saint Petersburg to meet her. We had a wonderful time. It has now been almost 5 months of emails, phone calles, flowers, gifts, just about name it. We developed, I think, a good relationship. She spoke about coming here, doing her work from NY (internet based) we spoke about marriage and more. However, with all the interest she never said anything like "I want to marry you, or come take me away" or anything truly definite. From her side is was mostly indirect dialouge. I need to point out that she was here once before, but the guy threw her out on day 89. She was crushed and I can see some reserve in doing it again.

The present. I am truly in love (and yes, I know what this means guys and girls, been there, got the bumper sticker and T shirt) and simply want this women to be with me.

The sad part. Several weeks ago her daughter was killed in a horrific car accident. She is completely devastated, depressed and I could just go on. She was lived alone for many years, learned to do everything for herself and now, when I want to be with her, she wants to be alone. No amount of letters, phone calls, flowers will change her mind. I spoke to one of her friends and was told she does not want me there until maybe the summer. The summer?! That is a long time. And I am unsure if when she is finished (well never really) with her mourning that her life will be so changed that I might lose her. She now has limited friends, a dirt bag ex, no parents, and my heart just goes out to her.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

 

 

[Jet]

Hey Viking,

At this point my suggestion would be to be supportive WITHOUT being overbearing. Summer is a long time to wait for the woman you love, but forever is a long time to spend without the daughter she loves. Right now, this is about her, not so much you. Phone calls are fine OCCASIONALLY, but try to keep them brief and supportive, especially at first. While she may seem to reject your offerings of flowers initially, she will come to really appreciate them (again provided you don't come off as the psycho stalker from hell). Your needs have to go on hold for a bit, if you truly want a future with THIS woman. Let her know that her pain is your pain, and that you are willing to help her try to heal anyway you can, but don't be too pushy too soon. Russian tradition says that 40 days is the appropriate time to mourn the death of a loved one, but it may take much longer than that.

Good luck, and our condolences.......


Let me just add that Lil and I went through our own trajedy between the time we first met and when we got engaged. It was a different situation, but I tried to handle it as I advised you to above. It worked for us....

[Admin]

Just want to reinforce what Jet said. His comment about it being about her right now, and not about you - is profoundly accurate.

Scott Peck wrote, in The Road Less Travelled, "Life is Difficult."

Sometimes, it is the smallest sentences that ring the truest.

Best of luck to you - and especially, your lady.

- Dan

[viking]

Thanks Jet. Yes, I want THIS woman. No doubt in my mind. I understand that she has her own needs that supercede mine for the time being. And I do appreciate your feelings and that of the others as well.  I also think I am being a bit on the sensitive side in terms of being secure in this relationsip to begin with. As I said before she never really expressed to  me her true feelings and I am wondering if this is a cultural thing with an RW. Or just cautious due to her prior experience. If I could feel more comfortable about her committment to me, the wait would be much easier. Call it anxiety. I have loved and lost in my life ( and loved and won, I do have have 2 daughters) but to lose her would be, well... pretty hard for me. I have put a lot into this. Time, money, emotions. We have shared quite a bit together.

I just feel that if someone pushes back at a time of severe distress, does not want to be with a man who cares for her, then what should I be expecting later?

 

[BillyB]

I just feel that if someone pushes back at a time of severe distress, does not want to be with a man who cares for her, then what should I be expecting later?

 

 I'm not so sure she's pushing back. I think it's difficult for her or anybody to pursue a romantic relationship at a time like this. You two are still in the courting phase. If you two were married, then I'd expect her to seek your comfort a little more.

Give it some time but we all have limits if a person doesn't include us at a time of healing. If she remains emotionally upset longer than you can bear then you're going to have to decide for yourself if she's worth the wait. For now, keep your calls short and let her know if you can help and let her come to you. Don't force yourself at the moment. A lot of good things can come if you exercise patience.

[Rvrwind]

Don't take her rejection too hard at this time, patience is the watchword.

I had the same thing happen with my wife when we were still dating. Her Father passed away & she totally dropped out of my life for close to three months. We even had to change our wedding plans & many other things. Russian families are very close& when they lose a close family member they take it very hard. We still after three years have memory day in February where we hoist drinks to the dearly departed. Myself being of a western mindset find this a bit different as I would just as soon forget about it & get on with my life, but here they will acknowledge this day every year till they themselves become the dearly departed.

Not knocking it or trying to be morbid, it is just their way & their culture. Somewhat different from ours.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[viking]

I understand. But understanding and acceptance of that understanding are two different things.

But she does not have any family. No parents, no brothers or sisters, no other children. I think an aunt some 1000 miles away and thats about it. So in my mind I am thinking she is very much alone and lonely and it really bothers me. Maybe my brain is just working overtime.

Seems like everyone here feels the same. Patience is a virtue. And I do appreciate the support.

Rvrwind, how did you manage to be out of touch with your wife ( to be) for 3 months when you were even further along in your plans than me? 

[catzenmouse]

I understand. But understanding and acceptance of that understanding are two different things.

But she does not have any family. No parents, no brothers or sisters, no other children. I think an aunt some 1000 miles away and thats about it. So in my mind I am thinking she is very much alone and lonely and it really bothers me. Maybe my brain is just working overtime.

Seems like everyone here feels the same. Patience is a virtue. And I do appreciate the support.

Rvrwind, how did you manage to be out of touch with your wife ( to be) for 3 months when you were even further along in your plans than me? 

Viking,

 This is a very recent occurance in her life and it will take time (only she will know how much) for her to come out of the shell she is in right now. When I lost my father and brother in a short period I went pretty numb and didn't want to see or talk to anyone for quite some time. I can't even imagine how it would feel to lose a child and an only child at that where they were everything for each other for a long time. You will have to be able to give her what she needs right now. No matter what you think, feel, or want. If this is going to happen for you both in the future you must back off and let her get through it enough to be able to come back to the world and to you. There are no set patterns for how long an individual will handle something of this magnitude so keep the contact lines open for her and take care of the things you need to take care of here. I do feel for you dude.

Ken

[BC]

Awful situation.

Parent loosing only child, no close relatives (except ex-relatives), mourning rituals and periods involved and a long healing process.. really tough stuff to deal with.

Considering the early stage of your involvement and added complexity even if you were able to get closer to the situation, probably the only alternative is simply to let her know that your thoughts are with her and you will be there for her when she needs you.

My wife also lost a close relative and our wedding plans were pushed back to a more appropriate time after rituals and traditional mourning period.

Someone close told me "this too shall pass.." and it did.

all fwiw.

[mischief]

Lost of a child, the only child is the worst thing that can ever happen to a mother…   I just can't imagine what she is going through now…   and since she has no relatives it can turn out very bad for her because even best friends are not a husband or parents, they less likely to do whatever it takes to get her out of her sorrow and pain…    

and she does need someone to help her dealing with the loss - no person can go through this kind of tragedy alone!  Right now she needs to interact with people not to dwell on her pain and go crazy… but it's the hardest thing to do and she needs someone help her with that!

If you can, you might consider going there… just to be there for her… and it's not about you (I agree with Dan) but about her… if you want this woman in your life, mentally and physically well, you should be there holding her hand… ..not much you can do from here, that's for sure…

[BC]

mischief,

I would agree with you if their relationship was much further along.. I would think right now her emotional 'shoestrings' would be attached to the ex in-laws and/or ex husband who are also certainly grieving as well..  add an American boyfriend to the mix.. I dunno..

For a guy that is "working my butt off to keep it all together" the on-site emotional support he could provide in terms of time alone might be quite limited and with little net effect.

Remember this is all just a stab in the dark on my part..

[Leslie]

Right now you need to appear as strong and dependable.  Let her mediate the communication. 

My wife's father died suddenly before we were engaged.  I knew I could not truly share her grief as although I had met her father, we were not close.  She was 'Daddy's little girl'.  She had lost her mum the previous year.  We were not yet so close that she would confide in me.   I decided not to be part of the problem.  I sent extra money (without being asked) because I knew Tasha would sell ALL the furniture to give her dad a decent funeral.  I told her I knew her mind would be elsewhere but when she wanted to talk just to send me a text message.  Communication went quiet for nearly 2 months but after that we became much closer.


Long after we were married Tasha told me that it was during this time that she decided I was a serious marriage prospect.  I certainly would not have guessed it at the time.

Rvr is absolutely correct on this -  


'they will acknowledge this day every year till they themselves become the dearly departed.'  

[/i]
If you marry you will learn to do this too.

[KenC]

Viking,

You have received a lot of good advice here and I thought I would add my 2 cents.  I disagree with going there at this time or before your lady expresses an interest in having you there.  Summer is only a few short months away.  Be sure that "summer" is only a guess of hers at this point too.

What I would do, would be to keep in contact with her through one sided communication.  Send her emails that do not require her to answer.  Something like: Hi Honey, Just wanted to let you know that you are in my thoughts daily.  This week was a bad week for me because it snowed like crazy and my basketball team sucks.  Blah blah blah.  What you will accomplish is to keep her abreast of your life and let her constantly know that you are here waiting for her to come out of her funk.  Your emails will even provide a diversion for her from her sorrow.  But don't ask for a response.  She will respond when she is ready.

KenC

[Leslie]

Spot on advice Kenc.

Occasional surprise gifts are a good idea too.

 

[KenC]

Thanks Leslie.  I like your idea too.  A regular thoughtful small gift of flowers or candy would be a great idea too.  Anything that will devert her attetion from her loss and make her happy (even if only temporarily) is of value.

KenC

[viking]

Guys, you have been great.

I have sent a small email, 'hope all is well, I am here if you need me' type of thing. No response. I had sent a small gift some time ago and it was just received (USPS tracking) but no response. Tried to call but the phone just rings and when it is busy I know she is usually on line but no response to IM.

To go there and use my limited vacation time now, I think would not be in either of our best interests. Rather to save it for the short term future when, and if, she comes around. I don't see any other choice. Forgetting about time and money, to go there and be rebuffed would be a killer, as much as I want to. And trust me, I want to. I had orginally wrote a fairly long letter about being alone and wanting to go there, talk, take a walk, listen, etc.. that it is irrational to be alone for so long and all that other good stuff but maybe it would be best to just hold back. Send a short note every once in awhile and like someone said, just talk about stuff to stay in the loop.

This is why god created bars.

[mischief]

There is no right or wrong answer here… I just gave you some thoughts from a woman's perspective ...

Another side of the coin that one of the reasons she considered a relationship with you or the previous American guy was to give a better future for her daughter… now the sense for living and struggling is gone along with her plans, hopes and dreams for her daughter… so if you won't make her think that she needs you in her life and convince her that she can have other perspective I don't think she will ever be ready for relationship with you…

[viking]

Mischief,

 

That is a pretty sad thought. But when her daughter was alive she was going to remain in Russia. It was a subject of discussion. I do know that this loss will have an impact somewhere between us. Has to. Just wish there was a mutual friend who could provide some feedback as what was on her mind.

 

BTW. I did not realize you were a woman. So when I said guys, do not take it personally. Sorry about that.

[viking]

Mischief,

 

Question. where in Forest Hills are you? I am in Long Beach.

[Zhena]

I didnt read all comments here. I just wanna say my IMHO about a situation. A situation is not easy. Your woman is very depressed as no more disaster in the world then to loose your kid. It will take alot of time before returning to a normal life. You have to be extremely patient-she will appreciate it later. Yes,in a russian menthality to be not too open with your feelings. I had this problem too,and still have,I guess. I try to be more open and it makes me more happy. I like the open people.

Author-I wish you a lot of patience and I believe that you know what you want and then you will be a winner. Give a time to it.

[viking]

a fiancee

 

thanks

[mischief]

I'm sorry the things I said are not positive… I hope everything will work out for you eventually…

If you ever need my help with Russian or anything, let me know…

I'm in the center of Forest Hills, live by Austin Street..

[viking]

Mischief

 

Would be nice to have a voice to speak with, on occassion. My personal contacts are available here. send me an email.

[Rvrwind]

Rvrwind, how did you manage to be out of touch with your wife ( to be) for 3 months when you were even further along in your plans than me? 

You just do it, it ain't easy & it drove me nuts but I loved & still do & had to go with the flow. These ladies may look delicate & easily breakable but believe me, they are far from it. Its times like these that show you how resilient they really are & how weak we as the supposidly dominant sex are.

For the 3 months she was out of touch I don't mean like totally. I got one e mail each month, very short just letting me know not to worry & all would be well. As it turns out, she was right. Still wasn't easy to accept, but what choice did Ihave. Had I pushed the issue & forced myself into her grief I'm sure we would not be together today. But by giving her the alone time she needed to grieve it in essence strengthened our relationship.

Its no easy thing & as much as I sympathize with you I can also, having been with a RW for 4+ years, and having gone through almost this very situation, understand what she is feeling & her need for some time to heal right now & for the next month or two. Just understand that if you push yourself into her life right now, when she is not prepared to deal with you, that you will push her right out of your life.

Sympathize & show caring but keep at arms length. Give her the space she needs & let her know on occaision that you are there if she needs you & I assure you the benifits later will be well worth what you are enduring today.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Rando]

Not gonna read this whole thread either but ....I would go to her not for romance rather to offer her support in her time of loss. Go for a week or just a few days even...if you think you love her....this pain will never leave this woman...nothing will change by this summer....go and hold her hand and wipe her tears....its all you can do...staying away solves nothing and it never can.