Need advice on my situation

[newjason]

Greetings from Belgium-



When her moods changed very rapidly and she dropped you then rang you up 2 weeks later to patch up and started making demands again. You begin to wonder if this is 'normal' behavior for a RW. When you begin to wonder if this is normal for RW, you feel unhappy...




...when you feel unhappy, you go to 'happy hour'..















...when you go to happy hour, you're up for anything...


...when you're up for anything, you head for a Turkish bathhouse...

















...when you head for a Turkish bathhouse, you meet Charlie Sheen....



















...and when you meet Charlie Sheen, you re-enact scenes from 'Platoon' with Charlie Sheen from your living room...















...don't re-enact scenes from Platoon with Charlie Sheen from your living room.




Let her moods rapidly change and make demands with someone else. Get rid of this RW from your mind!




Dial 1-800-K-R-I-S-T-E-N and ask for Ashley Alexandra Dupre then give my regards to Eliot.

LOL  very nice.

Thanks for all the replies.

It's indeed time to end this chapter in life and start another one.

Yes, I contacted the agency when things where not going right but got not a straightforward answer, I felt like they had brought me in contact, arranged the visa and airplane tickets and that was it as far they were concerned...
She is still on the website and on the website of Lavender's Love agency in Barnaul.
Also listed on freepersonals.ru
On Lavender's and freepersonals she is listed as divorced, on Russian Pearls as single.

Klangfilm

Forget that girl.  Do not look on the internet for her profiles! You have the same affliction I was suffering from. Yes, I understand It's unbearably hard to deal with, but trust me, It only get's worse if you keep her in your head.

If you have any doubt that I know how you feel, Read my Thread  Hi, I am Jason....

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14463.0

If you feel the need to talk to someone about this , PM me. I will be happy to talk with you about it.

[Klangfilm]

Hello Jason,

It's hard, but I know I must move on and put all this behind me.
The whole thing has been bothering me since last year, she even tried to come over to Belgium with the papers that I gave with her when she went home.
Fortunate, the first thing I did when it looked like the ship was sinking, was contacting my embassy in Moscow and interior government in Brussels to have my invitation papers canceled otherwise she could come to Belgium and I had to pay for 2 years for everything while she's here.
I leave the correspondence of all this in sight just to remind me that I need to pay more attention next time I meet somebody and to be more patient and learn what the lady's true intentions are before getting in more deeply.

[mies]

What she wanted was 500 € a month, she makes about 375€ in Russia.

How much would a Belgian woman demand?

[Klangfilm]

Nothing.
Because all couples here share an account for household expenses like food,water,gas,electricity etc.
What this lady was demanding was 500€ extra on top just to agree to a marriage contract(prenup).
She claimed I didn't love her because I wanted the marriage contract ...

[mies]

Nothing.
Because all couples here share an account for household expenses like food,water,gas,electricity etc.
What this lady was demanding was 500€ extra on top just to agree to a marriage contract(prenup).
She claimed I didn't love her because I wanted the marriage contract ...

I think you misunderstood her and she misunderstood you. And because of this misunderstanding she thinks of you as a greedy person, and you think of her as a gold-digger.

In FSU marriage contracts are not common. The way they are usually understood by people is that "how much you will ask in a contract, is how much you will get." So she asked you for 500 EUR not to addition to "shared everything." She thought you were going to give her nothing, and she asked for 500EUR/mo to have at least some finances. I do not think that income of 500EUR/mo in EU is much, if housing is paid - it's a modest amount for all other spending.

Btw - have you read Aloe's thread on this forum? Very enlightening. After reading her thread, if I were single and dating a foreigner - I would also insist on marriage contract and demand some allowance to be included in the contract.

[newjason]

How are you doing Klangfilm?  It has been a while since you have posted anything. Just wondering if you are moving foward.

[Kuna]

Don't walk away....RUN!!!

He did run... he jsut needs to KEEP RUNNING!


Klangfilm..  you know the answer - just move on.

[Klangfilm]

I have indeed move forward !

I met a lovely lady from Ukraine and for 3 weeks now we Skype every day and I'm going to visit her the end of May.
We both have a very good feeling about this and there's only a age gap of 5 years between us,that's OK I think.
She speaks English and communication is very good with sometimes the need to translate words to Russian or English.

[newjason]

Good for you
Glad to hear that you are doing well.

[Klangfilm]

OK, time for an update and a new question.

I've been in contact with a lady from Zaporozhye now for 6 months.
Visited her twice, one time in Zaporozhye and this week in Kiev.

On Skype everything is fine, we talk almost 1 hour every day.
But our 'live' meetings are something else.
Today was the second time that I cut short my visit and came home because of the same discussion.
Money ....

What is the problem ? Because I let her pay 2 times in a restaurant(payed her back promptly the same or following day) she was not happy and says I not care for her since I let her pay in the first place.
On Wednesday we had the second time this 'problem' and yesterday she let me alone for 4 hours in our rented apartment in Kiev.
When she came back she said it was best we ended everything so I bought a ticket on the flight back home this morning, had to pay full price because my original ticket was non - refundable and could not be changed.
She go stay with her niece and would come at 06:00 am with a taxi to let me go on to Boryspol airport.
To my surprise this morning she arrived at 05:15 am, made me breakfast and said she still loved me.
Came with me to the airport to send me off and stayed with me for 90 minutes before I had to go.

Now, I'm home and confussed ... am I the reason off all this (cfr. let her pay and pay her back) or is she playing some kind of game with me ?
My feelings for her are very strong but this is not a healthy situation I think or am I'm wrong ?
Have now agreed to take some cool off time and talk to hear at the end of the week on Skype.

[Faux Pas]

My guess is: The woman likes you. You have however hurt her pride. It's something she can get over. On the other side, she is making a mountain out of a molehill. If in fact her problem is that she paid and you paid her back. It's not "that" big of a deal. This woman seems to like the drama. Be glad you saw this now instead of later

You maybe should have stayed until the end of your original plan and see how it worked out? If it was imperative that you get away from her, I think you know your answer?

[Eduard]

In this particular case I think it's impossible to judge anything or any one without hearing the other side. In any case it's safe to assume that their communication is limited and there is and will be plenty of misunderstanding and miscommunication between them. It's a "Russian roulette" for both parties IMO.

[Vaughn]

....yesterday she let me alone for 4 hours in our rented apartment in Kiev.
When she came back she said it was best we ended everything

In March you wrote:
 

.....I need to pay more attention next time I meet somebody and to be more patient and learn what the lady's true intentions are before getting in more deeply.

I agree with Faux Pas that this woman not only likes drama, she invites it. Very strange arrangement - her paying and you "paying her back"....  it sounds like she offered to front the expenses, if for no other reason to see if you'd allow that - and you did, giving her the open door to express resentment and hurt. Do you really want a lady who conducts herself this way? It happened TWICE ?  This little event should grab your attention as you advised yourself to do 6 months ago. You are correct - this is not a healthy situation.
 
 

[mendeleyev]

What is the problem ?

Great question. I have some comments and hope that you will receive them as intended--to help you.

Why leave so soon? She is not the only woman in the FSU and if you couldn't find things to do and see in Kiev then perhaps you shouldn't venture East for a wife.

She is from Zaporozhye but met you in Kiev. At that point you should have been prepared to front normal expenses. 440 km may not seem like a long distance to you (275 miles for our American readers) but that is a heck of a train ride back home. Had you not "paid her back" then without knowing her financial circumstances, it could have reduced her to a cattle car type ticket and no money to eat anything on a long and lonely 10 to 12 hour train ride home.

If the girl is halfway attractive she can find a local guy and front his cafe expenses--no need to risk moving to Belgium, a long ways from home, to risk being poor just to marry a foreigner. Like Vaughn, I think that her offer to pay, at least in part, was a test. The drama might not only be in you failing the test, twice, but likely there are other reasons that led her to test you.

That all being said, I'm not sure why you'd meet her in Kiev when clearly you don't know each other that well yet. You need to plant your buttocks in Zaporozhye and spend so much time on her turf that you can navigate your way from one side of town to the other in all sorts of weather and all times of day or night. Save the little side honeymoon trips until after a wedding. There is so much that you don't know about her way of life, her habits, her values, her family relationships, etc, etc, and those are things you simply never discover on a honeymoon trip. As Ed asked, it would seem that there are lots of communication issues because of language and immersing yourself in her hometown environment gives you a much better perspective to see and work through some of those misunderstandings.

She came back and then stayed with you at the airport because something about you has resonated within her as Faux Pas has already mentioned. Whether you stick with this lady or another, you need to find out what that is and then consistently deliver the good things of your character while eliminating the perceived need to test.

[ML]

I am presuming she paid because the man said something like; I haven't yet changed my currency into hryvnia.

So it was just a matter of doing the FX and then paying her back.
No big deal between long time friends or business associates.

But . . . when a woman is involved . . . and she is of a different culture . . . and there are some language barriers . . . and there is some lack of knowledge of each other;

then this situation should be avoided at all costs.

Yes, at times it is tricky  for the foreign visitor to get all his ducks in a row quickly upon arrival,  but it simply must be done.

When I have encountered this situation; I have told the gal very early up front:  "We must stop on the way to the restaurant and do the FX thingy."

One of my best experiences along these lines was when the gal I was visiting first (on a WMVM trip) picked me up at airport, took me to apartment, and once inside the apartment . . . she handed me 1500 (or so) hryvina saying "you can give me the $200 when you get a chance."  But such gals are few and far between.

[Vaughn]

To my surprise this morning she arrived at 05:15 am, made me breakfast and said she still loved me.
Came with me to the airport to send me off and stayed with me for 90 minutes before I had to go.

Now you are home and confused, which tells me her mission was accomplished. Her care and attention that early morning only served up guilt, and the fact you are asking if you did anything wrong indicates you're being manipulated, and negatively so.  As you Skype with her this weekend, pay careful attention to her words and facial expression - and decide if she continues to make you feel guilty. Assigning guilt to others is an often used tool and her treating you so well as you were about to depart was her clever way of fortifying your feelings of having done something wrong.
 
She's grown and not likely to ever change. Only you can decide if you're willing to deal with more of this drama in the future. There are many other well-adjusted FSU women seeking a sincere guy like you, who don't blackmail emotionally. Keep searching.

[GQBlues]

There seem to be this prevalent disposition that dating women from FSU allows a woman with personal issues a lot of leeway despite yourself. A man must be a man yada, yada, BS.

You likely won't put up with local women with this much baggage while second guessing yourself to death. Why do this with one thousand of miles from you. Bad behavior is bad behavior period. Drop her her and move on. Don't be a wuss trying to sleep this one out with pain in your heart silliness.

[Shadow]

Hi Klangfilm, greetings from Belgium.

There are two things to think over here. The first is that you will have to learn more about the culture and temperament of the women you are visiting.
The letting her pay was most likely you not having change, but this happening twice is for her an indication you are not planning things ahead, or you are short on money. This, added to the hurt pride of a woman having to pay for a man, means she got upset. Now in most cases such a mood will pass in a couple of hours and after that things will return to normal. Question is if you are prepared to cope with such a thing, as it is unlikely she will ever change in this behaviour.

If you continue, expect this behaviour as long as the relationship lasts. You will have to think ahead, and avoid having her rescue you as this will always lead to a major argument.

[TheTraveler]

anyone else have an acquaintance who never seems to have any cash in his pocket when it's his turn to buy the next round?
 
personally, i've known plenty, and my solution is to not include them in anything where money is involved.  come to think of it, i pretty much don't want to have anything to do with them in any situation.
 
klangfilm might just be disorganized... but my gut tells me that he's just cheap.

[Gator]

Klangfilm,

Summary:  Cultural clash plus man's inexperience with women.

Unless this woman has met several Western men, her dating concepts are based on dating Ukrainian men.  Thus,

                              She has been trained by UM.   

As such, she will behave differently  in key ways from women you dated in Europe.
 
You made a fatal mistake when she had to pay for the restaurant.  It is a mistake for two reasons.   First,  foreign men are expected to pay all travel expenses of UW they meet.  Second, and the primary reason, a "real man" would be prepared.  And you did it twice!!!!
 
Come on man!  There are ATMs everywhere including the airport. 
 
UW consider life difficult and they want a man who will solve problems, who knows what to do.  By not being prepared, you were more like a child.  In her four-hour absence, she probably discussed this with her niece and friends, and I am certain they considered you behavior shocking.
 
Now the drama part.  This also seems to be a mannerism with many UW, in part from their training by UM.  I have seen many a young FSUM chasing his teenage woman down a street begging for forgiveness, promising not to do that again.  It is a show more than a game, yet it is a test of the man's love.  Older FSUW are not so dramatic, yet it is still in them from their long experience with FSUM.
 
She announced that it is "over"  and you went home without an argument.  You failed.  Where's your fighting spirit?  Fight for this woman if you want her. 
 
What to do?  It is clear to me that she wants you.  The two of you must learn how to communicate or you will repeat such misunderstandings, again and again.  Be the man and write her a correctly translated letter explaining how important she is to you.  The fact that you went home and did not stay to see other women is a "plus."   Also, explain why you did not pay at the restaurant and assure her such unmanly behavior will not happen again.  But don't dwell on it. 
 
Is she worth this work?   If yes, good luck.

[Vasilisa]

Well, this story left me with mixed feelings.
I'd really like to hear another side's opinion on "small things" arguments for example.

From the description the girl seems to be very young, emotional and immature. They don't seem to be a good couple though.

[JayH]

I do not understand guys that make trip and do not pay without thinking about it.It shows no understanding or respect for Ukraine economics.It shows no cultural understanding whatsoever.I see no fault in girls behaviour whatsoever. She was upset with solid reasons to feel that way.

[Daveman]

Sounds to me more like emotional blackmail.. "do what I want or end the relationship"...


Yeah, she was probably embarrassed pulling our her money to pay for something (I guess).   Going to exchange money is a breeze with kiosks everywhere, etc, so not sure why that wasn't in the cards.  Still, though, it seems a ridiculous argument to be pushed to such an extreme.  Just stupid. 


Personally, I have a zero tolerance policy for such stupidity.  Yeah, you should have exchanged your money and paid for the restaurant... but really... is this the kind of woman you want as a partner?  There are plenty of flies buzzing around any relationship.. do you really want to live with all those elephants?


It's not that she confronted you about it if it bothered her... it's that she wanted to play the "end of the relationship" card.


So, either she was/is just looking for an excuse to end things or she needs to play these kinds of dramatic games in a relationship to get you to react and show you love her.  It's pretty common and probably a good reason they're still single.

[CDW]

You made a fatal mistake when she had to pay for the restaurant.  It is a mistake for two reasons.   First,  foreign men are expected to pay all travel expenses of UW they meet.

Yes, we are expected to pay all travel expenses, accomodation, food and so on, but some ladies might like to pay at some point to make them feel good.

Two of my ex-girlfriends liked to pay me at a point, because they wanted to and it made them feel good.

[Vasilisa]

Two of my ex-girlfriends liked to pay me at a point, because they wanted to and it made them feel good.

For this type of the girls you'd better go to Western Europe, USA, Scandinavia.
Because Russia is the country where there the local girls start threads about Russian guys like:
"How to teach the guy to spend money on his girls friend"(he buys me the presents but doesn't give money)
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4231007/

"Do you ask your boy friends to give you money?"
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4230810/

"I left the guy who presented me a cheap gift"
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4230822/

"I asked my boy friend to give me money to buy the dress I liked... and he didn't give it"
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4230952/

"Is he greedy or is this normal?"
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4229680/

"Is it normal to pay 50/50 with the boy friend?"
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/3978101/

"my boy friend wants to pay an apartnment rent 50/50" is that normal?!
http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4230104/
"my lover doesn't make presents to me"

http://www.woman.ru/relations/men/thread/4217605/

And that all is about the RUSSIAN men who actually PAY, but don't pay as much as they are supposed to pay according to the RW, and the FOREIGN men are supposed to pay more as they are expected to be  richer than the Russian ones, so keep looking CDW, keep teaching them!!!