Her child

[Bruno]

" When America bombed Japan back to the stone age, When America bombed the Nazis back to the stone age, When America bombed the Taliban in Afghanistan
back to the stone age, When America bombed Iraq back to the 20th century,
it was a good thing. The concept for all of these wars is 'liberation' "

Japan, Germany, Taliban ( Den laden ), Iraq ( for the first war )... i agree... it was "defense"... these country have attack first... i have defend myself again the attack from JB... he start, i reply...

" I do very firmly draw the line when someone brings another's wife into it, however remotely. "

I have say nothing against the wife of JB... but against him and his method of stop dialogue when he is too short of argument ...

"I edited my post above to leave out the most political and inflammatory of remarks.  I disagree with you and I'll leave it at that.  I also believe most American men will disagree with you as well."

You have edited you punt number 4#... where you say that all muslim are terrorist... where you show your xenophobe side...

And why all this discussion... because someone will no accept that American law is only valid in America... that a american in russia need to follow russian law... that a adoption in America is not valid in russia if the russian father have no renouce his right... that a russian procedure will be need... i have loose for 6 month my little daughter because his bio-father have clain her during a holliday in Russia... i have only try to explain take care about these detail...

I have publish URL from official site, but JB say i lie, i know nothing because i am not American... and he give example about adoption from russian children by co-worker in two week... the situation is not the same and two week are impossible for a legal adoption :

http://www.cradle.org/as/intl/russia.cfm  http://www.cradle.org/as/intl/russia_reqs.cfm

Now, these post will be my last... i am not American and it is a American forum... named "russian woman discussion" in place of "american discussion over russian"...  i have only advantage to quit... i don't need the help of somebody and this go allow me to have more free time...

Don't worry Dan, i keep the link to your forum on my site... since 43% of my visitor are from USA, some post can be interesting for them...

Be happy JB, you are again the king... you can begin search a other victim since you have miss with me... I know that what i write is true but these fight is not good for DAN... "I'd like to find ways to ameliorate the disharmony, but find it sometimes awkward or clumsy to be effective." ... i have find the way, i quit ... go away with the stranger, American forum for American man...

[Vaughn]

Good grief, Bruno. Sorry to see you go.

[Admin]

I know that what i write is true but these fight is not good for DAN... "I'd like to find ways to ameliorate the disharmony, but find it sometimes awkward or clumsy to be effective." ... i have find the way, i quit ... go away with the stranger, American forum for American man...

Bruno,

Forums like these often can be callous and unfriendly.

Please do not be concerned about my reaction to this string of messages. Your input and participation on the board is extremely valuable.

I think what has happened is we managed to drift off-topic into the arena of world politics - rather than remain focused on the principal theme(s) of the board.

While the nature of the board is to address multi-cultural and multi-national topics to an extent, it should probably remain within the context of women from the Former Soviet Union.

It is not always easy to remain "on point" though - and I recognize that.

Bruno, know that I (for one) will regret any decision you make to leave the board. Your participation has been educational and informative to many readers of the board.

I also think jb has made many contributions.

I hope you both remain and continue to contribute and provide needed assistance to others.

Best Wishes,

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

Bruno,
I think you made a mistake by making callous remarks about
America. It was offensive to me, but we all make mistakes.
Nobody's perfect. I'm sorry to see you go. You're overreacting.
I enjoyed many of your posts.  -doug L.

[jb]

It never occurred to me that someone with such strongly stated opinions as Bruno, would actually be so thin skinned.  

It was never my goal to "run" Bruno off. I'm sorry to see him take his marbles and go home simply because he didn't like someone saying that perhaps he doesn't know didily-squat about State Family Law Courts in the various States within the USA.  Hells-bells~!, there are 50 States and every one is somewhat different, each like a mini-country within the USA, which is why I made the disclaimer I did at the start of my first post.  Even the lawyers are requred to take exams for each State they wish to do business in, it's complicated.

That said, I still maintain that adoption of children, be they orphans or step-children, here in the USA is the final word,,,period.  Every country on the planet, led by anyone with an ounce of brains, will recognize the "Blue" passport, and treat the citizen accordingly.  We have a well earned reputation for going to bat for people, and the use of force is not out of the question where American lives and liberty are at stake.

I did not denigrate Belgium, it's government, or it's citizens, I was appalled when Bruuno started to dredge up real and imagined incidents where he thought America was in the political wrong,  considering how sensitive American's are right now, post 9/11/01, I thought he got off easy.  If he'd been a Frenchman instead of a Belgian, I'd have roasted him alive.  I have a deep and abiding dislike and distrust for anything French.

[RacerX]

jb - what about French fries?

Dan- although it is true the consulate in Moscow will ask for a letter from the Father, in fact they apparently never deny a K-2 visa if none is produced.  Indeed Russian law does not require the father's permission:
RF #273 5 December 2003. However, Ukraine does.

I always thought it was the destiny of America to rule the world (but that's another thread)

[Bruno]

[line]
It never occurred to me that someone with such strong stated opinions as Bruno, would actually be so thin skinned.
[line]
I have the skin very strong... it was only a strategic retreat before the final attack... i have need some time for find the evidence about what i have write before... not about politic but about the child and adoption...
[line]
I'm sorry to see him take his marbles and go home simply because he didn't like someone saying that perhaps he doesn't know didily-squat about State Family Law Courts in the various States within the USA. Hells-bells~!, there are 50 States and every one is somewhat different, each like a mini-country within the USA ... Where did your statement significantly differ from mine? Bruno was the one who wanted to argue some obscure non-existant International point of law, stating that there is, or may be, some higher court than that which might grant a decree of adoption, other than a State's Family Law Court.
[line]
USA follow the international rule :

"The final text of the Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in Respect of Intercountry Adoption (Hague Adoption Convention), a multilateral treaty, was approved by 66 nations on May 29, 1993 at The Hague. The Convention covers adoptions between countries that become parties to it and sets out for such adoptions certain internationally agreed-upon minimum norms and procedures... The United States signed the Convention on March 31, 1994, signaling its intent to proceed with efforts to ratify the Convention. In summer 1998, President Clinton transmitted the Convention, with an article-by-article legal analysis of its provisions, to the U.S. ..."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/convention/convention_459.html

"Such an adoption may take place only if: the country of origin has established that the child is adoptable, that due consideration has been given to the child''s adoption in its country of origin and an intercountry adoption is in the child''s best interests, and that after counseling, the necessary consents to the adoption have been given freely, AND, the receiving country has determined that the prospective adoptive parents are eligible and suited to adopt, and that the child they wish to adopt will be authorized to enter and reside permanently in that country."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/convention/convention_459.html

And US State follow federal rule :

"The preparations for U.S. implementation of the Convention and IAA are expected to take until some time in late 2005 ... Adoptions and placements for adoption made in the United States are currently subject only to State law and procedures and not to any federal law. Upon the Convention''s entry into force for the United States the U.S. State, territory or commonwealth of residence of the child that is to emigrate to another Convention party country will be required to make the determinations set out for sending states in Articles 4 and 17 of the Hague Convention and to meet other requirements before an adoption or placement for adoption may proceed."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/convention/convention_459.html

Laws from US AND laws from Russia are relevent :

"Two sets of laws are particularly relevant: 1) the laws of Russia govern all activity in Russia including the adoptability of individual children as well as the adoption of children in country. 2) U.S. Federal immigration law governs the immigration of the child to the United States."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_441.html
[line]
One of my co-workers and his wife just adpoted a Russian child, an little infant baby girl, it took about $10,000 USD and less than two weeks to do the deal in Russia.
[line]
What a miracle, give fast the recept for other who wish adopt fast a children... some fact :

- For russia :

"The average time for the adoption process is 5 months from the time US CIS approves the I-600A petition to the issuance of the immigrant visa. "
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_441.html

"Russia requires adoptive parents to use an adoption agency that is accredited by the Russian Government to provide adoption services. Adoption agencies that do not have Russian accreditation must work under the auspices of an accredited adoption agency."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_441.html

"With assistance of an adoption agency accredited by the Russian Government, parents first apply to a regional Ministry of Education, which directs them to an orphanage. Adoptive parents are required to travel to Russia to meet prospective adoptive children. There they select a child and apply to the court to get a court date. Adoptive parents may return to the United States after applying for a court date. However, the prospective adoptive child must remain in Russia during this time. Adoptive parents travel a second time to Russia to attend the court hearing. After the court hearing, they obtain the adoption certificate and a new birth certificate (showing the child's new name, and the adoptive parents as the parents) from the ZAGS (civil registration office), after which they can obtain the passport for the child from the OVIR (visa and registration department). Parents then can contact the Embassy to make an appointment to apply for the immigrant visa."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_441.html

- For Ukraine :

"The following is a guide for U.S. citizens who plan to adopt a child in Ukraine and apply for an immigrant visa for the child to come to the United States. This process involves complex foreign and U.S. legal requirements. U.S. consular officers review each case carefully to ensure that the legal requirements of both countries have been met, for the protection of the prospective adopting parent(s), the biological parents(s) and the child. Interested U.S. citizens are strongly encouraged to contact U.S. consular officials in Ukraine before formalizing an adoption agreement to ensure that appropriate procedures have been followed, which will make it possible for the Embassy to issue a U.S. immigrant visa for the child."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_343.html

"It takes 2-6 months to be matched with a Ukrainian orphan after adopting parents submit their dossier with the National Adoption Center. Parents can also expect a three to four week wait between the initial filing of the adoption in the local court and issuance of the final adoption decree."
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_343.html

"...obtain and assemble the necessary documents required by the Russian legislation (the Russian file). These documents are legalized (authenticated and apostilled)... prepare the client(s) for travel to the Russian Federation. After seeing the child and consenting, in writing, to adopt the child, the Regional Authority will ask for a confirmation from the Operator of the Russian Federation Data Bank... Once a positive answer (within 10 days) is received, the Agency's Russian staff will file, with the Court, the applicant(s) and the child's required documents and a Court Date will be set. The participation of both married applicants in the closed Court Hearing is mandatory. The Court Decision becomes final, within 10 days after its rendering, provided an appeal is not filed with the Appellate Court by an interested party... Next, the Agency's staff will register the Court Decision and obtain the child's adoption documents. In addition, obtaining the adopted child's passport and participating in the Visa Interview at the American Embassy in Moscow for the adopted child will take place in the presence of at least one of the adopting parents... register the adopted child with the Consular Section of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Upon entry into the United States, the adopted child automatically becomes an American Citizen. The adoption is final and recognized by the United States. However, the adoptive parent(s), as well as the Agency, continue to have a contractual obligation to send post placement reports reflecting the progress achieved by the child on the health and educational development in his/her new family and also family photographs as follows: 6 months, 1 year, 2 years and 3 years from the date of the Court Decision..."
http://www.cwaany.org/russian.html
[line]
Adopting a step-child in the USA is a whole different kettle of fish.
[line]
No so much different... if the child have not stay minimum two year in US, the procedure is the same that for a orphan... after two year of stay, it is a other procedure... Only remember that with K1 of K3, non immigrant visa, the wife and children stay russian until the green card after two year.

"K1 : The child of a fiancé(e) may receive a derivative K-2 visa from his/her parent's fiancé(e) petition. You, the American citizen petitioner, must make sure that you name the child in the I-129F petition. After the marriage of the child's parent and the American citizen, the child will need a separate form I-485 Application to Register Permanent Residence or to Adjust Status. The child may travel with (accompany) the K-1 parent/fiancé(e) or travel later (follow-to-join) within one year from the date of issuance of the K-1 visa to his/her parent. A separate petition is not required if the children accompany or follow the alien fiancé(e) within one year from the date of issuance of the K-1 visa. If it is long than one year from the date of visa issuance, a separate immigrant visa petition is required. Remember that in immigration law a child must be unmarried. The stepparent/stepchild relationship must be created before the child reaches the age of 18. "
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1315.html

"The K-4 child will not be able to file for adjustment of status in the United States until the U.S. citizen parent/step-parent files a I-130 on behalf of the child. If the U.S. citizen parent/step-parent never files the I-130 petition, the immigrating parent may do so once he/she has obtained legal permanent resident (LPR) status, but the child would have to wait for an available visa number. Finally, the immigrant parent, upon adjusting status will no longer be in K-3 status, therefore, the child will no longer be in lawful K-4 status, since this is merely a derivative classification, and that child would begin to accrue unlawful presence."
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1315.htm

"There are two ways to bring an adopted child into the United States. The fastest and easiest way is to adopt an orphan who automatically becomes eligible to enter the United States as an immediate relative. Only U.S. citizens are eligible to immigrate a child as an orphan.The second way is to adopt a child and reside with that child for two years prior to petitioning for the child. U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents may immigrate a child with whom they have lived for two years...

Immigration/Adoption of child based on 2-years residence through submitting Form
I-130: If you adopt a child before the child turns 16 (or 18, as described above), and you live with the child for two years (cumulatively, not necessarily continuously) as the child's primary caregiver, then you may file an I-130 petition for an alien relative. The petition may be filed after the 16th (or 18th) birthday, and the two years may culminate after the 16th (or 18th) birthday. (Please note that, generally, all qualifying criteria must be established BEFORE the child may enter the U.S.)

Immigration/Adoption of an orphan through submitting Form I-600: If you adopt or intend to adopt a child who meets the legal definition of an orphan, you may petition for that child at any time prior to the child's 16th (or 18th, as described above) birthday, even if the adoption takes place subsequently (and in many cases, the adoption does not occur until the child comes to the US). "
http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/index2.htm
[line]
Bruno's point was BS, and I told him so... However, when I see someone riding a high horse without the proper uniform, I'm apt to say so... But I don't think you know anything about American Family Law Court...
[line]
Of course, i am not American and not Texan... but this allow me to have a point of view more international... and these international point of view is needed in these forum... RWD ... R for russian... American man who marry russian woman...

For the american who wish a lot of information about all : visa, marriage, adoption, ... visit the two following site

http://uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm
http://travel.state.gov/

[line]
If he'd been a Frenchman instead of a Belgian, I'd have roasted him alive. I have a deep and abiding dislike and distrust for anything French.
[line]


I know enough good the Frenchman... they have a big mouth and think that France is the centrum of world ( a little like texan )...

For your information, i am from Belgium, i live in the Dutch side but my origin is from the French side, in Dinant, a very good know city ( it is the birth place of Adolf Sax, the man who have invent the saxophone )... my mother is from Holland ( father : Germany / Mother : Holland )... my father is from France ( father : italian / mother : French )... i have married a russian woman ( father : russia / mother roumania ) and the next one will be Ukrainian ( father : moldova / mother : Ukrainian )...

With so mix of blood, i feel me more a citizen of the world that a Belgium man... but now, you can dislike me : i have French blood and i speak French

[Muzh]

Wow, did I miss the shoot out.  By looking at the thread tittle, I would never had guess there was a massacre going on.

I'm not going to get into this arguement, however, please gentlemen, Fox News - Fair and Balanced?  If you are a hard core right wing conservative the answer is obvious.  However, the last I heard there was a 49 - 49 split in this country.

And the yelling, for heavens sake!  Luckly, Bruno is thousands of miles away, if not I was certain there would have been a public hanging after he stated that he is (surprise!) very French.  I wonder if Washington would have hanged Stuyvesant, L'Enfat and LaFayette (damn foreigniers).

Oof, better hide.

[Bruno]

Muzh, i wish that you give back you French souvenir in New-York... You know, the liberty statue, build by Albert Eiffel and gift from France  Joke

[ConnerVT]

Dan- although it is true the consulate in Moscow will ask for a letter from the Father, in fact they apparently never deny a K-2 visa if none is produced. Indeed Russian law does not require the father's permission:
RF #273 5 December 2003. However, Ukraine does.

 

At my wife's Feb. 2004 k-1 interview in Moscow, she was never asked for the father's letter.  In fact she was both surprised and I think disappointed that no one ever asked to see that letter.

[Bruce]

Bruno - you have so much mixed European you easily could be American.  I am glad you are still around to share sometimes different and correct views to for the most part middle aged conservative American men.  Yes, the French have made tremendous contributions to the world like the Statue of Liberty wine, truffles and Bonne Maman preserves etc. - but we are still not happy with most of their politics.   I am glad you decided to continue to chat with your new found, more respectful American friends.  Do not gloat too hard - we will still argue our points and sometimes are stubborn, but we'll always dust you off, buy you a beer and let you get a wallop into us once you are back on your feet!   Now I have to read your post carefully, see the links and truly educate myself when it comes to this issue.  Thanks!

[RacerX]

 

At my wife's Feb. 2004 k-1 interview in Moscow, she was never asked for the father's letter.  In fact she was both surprised and I think disappointed that no one ever asked to see that letter.

Was the child(ren) in her passport?  You didn't say anything about a K-2, but in any event CONGRATULATIONS!

[Bruno]

[line]
At my wife's Feb. 2004 k-1 interview in Moscow, she was never asked for the father's letter.  In fact she was both surprised and I think disappointed that no one ever asked to see that letter.

[line]


In Europa, it is a long time that the international law are used ( around 1998 )

For the law in US, at federal level, it is only changing now... and for the state level, it is planned only late 2005...

Conner, keep preciously the father's letter if you wish adopt the child... of maybe wait until the child have stay two year in US... for he receive his green card... but take care about limit of age for adoption...

For my ex-wife, the father's letter was only ask at the Moscow airport by the authorithy when they have see that the visa in the passport of my wife was a immigration visa ( i have mary in Russia )... and later for try the adoption...

[Vaughn]

Bruno wrote:

Conner, keep preciously the father's letter if you wish adopt the child... of maybe wait until the child have stay two year in US...

Here's a little story related to a father's permission: My wife was skittish about approaching her ex-husband with news of her impending move to America; therefore, she never applied for an International Passport for her daughter, which would have required his signature and hence, the cat's out of the bag. About a month before I went over to bring them home, the daughter was spending some time with her Dad, and he approached her about the widespread rumor of her leaving soon. My wife and he finally began to discuss it, and he agreed that he would not hold them back. On the very day before we departed, she decided to get it in writing, and so they went to the courthouse and drew up a document stating his daughter had his express permission to leave, but he did want her to retain his surname - no problem. The document never came into play until now - over two years later - our daughter will be spending the summer in Russia and needs that passport she never acquired. The Russian Embassy here will issue one for $100, but a required document is that very "permission slip." Without it, I don't know where we'd stand....The irony: It's as if she didn't need it to leave, but certainly needed it to visit home. She was able to visit home last year with her Mom, but they were traveling together, she was listed in the American-issued visa and carried Advanced Parole to return here.

Vaughn

[2tallbill]

My question is, how much support is the father required to give? With this being the Ukraine I have a feeling once he signs for the child he will cease to provide any support. Is this true?

There is a 99.9% chance that he will not pay child support.

My goal is not to replace the child's father but to care for, protect and support the child as long as they are living with me.

That's what you are signed up for now.

NOTE: To all who read this. If you are interested in a woman with a child
you need to work out every single detail of every possible scenario in
advance before making this leap of faith.

Who will discipline the child? What happens if the child completely disobeys you? shouts in your
face? runs away? punches you? punches her? steals? takes drugs? gets a girl preggers? becomes
preggers? wrecks the family car? gets terrible grades? How do you resolve disagreements about
the child? and on and on and on and on.

This will save you immeasurable heartache and huge disagreements later on. I know a guy who
did NOT do this and they were divorced with in a year. 

Wait that's not even close to all. What about church? future children? your existing children? Adult
children? what about your exwife? inlaws, outlaws, teachers, pets, responsibilities, chores, promises
made, and on, and on and on. Spanking? pro or con? till what age?

What happens to kids if there is a zombie apocalypse? Covid 27? if you win the lottery? if one of you
dies? If suddenly your new wife gets preggers? what about twins? Has the child be given the facts of
life talk? who should do it? what will you/she say? Santa Claus da ili nyet?

Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,
talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,
talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk,
talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,

talk, talk, talk, then do it some more. 

You will learn a lot, she will learn a lot. If you are not compatible this exercise my save you a lot of
grief and anguish. 

Udachi!

Bill

[ML]

Don't pursue a woman with child/children between ages of 6 - 17.

[2tallbill]

Don't pursue a woman with child/children between ages of 6 - 17.

Could you expand on your theory? 0-5 is ok? What if she has a son going to his
second year of University? That in my view would be the worst.

[olgac]

My theory is any children of any age below 18 from both a man and a woman is bad news.

[2tallbill]

My theory is any children of any age below 18 from both a man and a woman is bad news.

It definitely can be.

[ML]

Could you expand on your theory? 0-5 is ok? What if she has a son going to his
second year of University? That in my view would be the worst.

I just think that if a man or woman comes into a relationship with a child 0-5, there is a good chance the child would see the new partner as his/her mother or father.  Of course all depends on how the new partner acts toward the child and how the existing partner help facilitate the relationship. 

All very risky as Olga says.

I don't understand your concern about child going into second year at University.

[olgac]

This is true the child is young enough to see a step parent as parent but it's common for a woman with a child to
prevent a new husband from disciplining a child which can cause problems.

Also I once knew a Russian woman who married a single dad with a 3 year old whose mom abandoned the child.
I was visiting this woman a lot in her home and I noticed she really ignored the child. Yes she was cooking for a child
and dressing him and meeting all the basic needs but she for example ignored when he was talking to her and just said "uh um" when he was telling her stories or showing her something.

Later she gave birth to a new child with her husband and she confinded in us women that she feels totally
different to her biological child. We can't ignore such things...

[2tallbill]

I just think that if a man or woman comes into a relationship with a child 0-5, there is a good chance the child would see the new partner as his/her mother or father.  Of course all depends on how the new partner acts toward the child and how the existing partner help facilitate the relationship. 

All very risky as Olga says.

I don't understand your concern about child going into second year at University.

It's a boy 19 years old approximately, he WILL think he knows everything,
he WILLhate you, he WILL press your buttons, his mom WILL NOT
be able to control him, he WILL pit her against you. He WILL feel
entitled. He WILL drive you nuts. 

A boy 15-20 is the worst possible scenario. Russian women tend to spoil the hell out
of their sons. Smiley girl by comparison was not spoiled at all. She sought out my
approval, she wanted me to be proud of her grades, art drawings, English skills, her
humor, etc. etc., etc. 

 

[2tallbill]

This is true the child is young enough to see a step parent as parent but it's common for a woman with a child to prevent a new husband from disciplining a child which can cause problems.

You need to have to have extensive, detailed conversations about this. It can cause problems
either way. Absolute agreement before marriage is tantamount for success.

If the child doesn't believe they need to obey their teacher, coach, principal they will not
be successful in school. If the child doesn't have to obey both parents they will not be
successful as adults.

We never discussed Smiley girl when she could hear us. (Unless she did something good).
Like good marks on her test or book report, etc. Then we would often talk as if we didn't
know she could hear us.

"Did you know, Smiley Girl got 100% on her test about US State Capitals? Do you think we
should buy xyz for her?"

Angel Eyes and I ALWAYS agree about what we should do with Smiley girl and Mini Me.
The school has no chance to disagree with us. We always agree in front of the kids.