Putin is Ruining Russia

[krimster2]

"(The) note about  Putin's daughter on Radio 1 was not wise," Broertjes later tweeted after receiving a mysterios email with photos of his own daughters

[Muzh]

BS

LMAO


So you can see with your eyes closed.

[Muzh]

Krimster,

Superb account of the Big Picture with one omission, a large omission. 

In Putin's rise to power and throughout his continuing authoritarian hold of the reins, he has been supported by a gang of the richest "Yuri Somethings."  So if he wants to run the film "Collapse of the Soviet Union" in reverse, he eventually will get to the point where he  must undo the privatizations, i. e. transfer the wealth accumulated by the Yuri Somethings back to the government or in other words back to the citizens.  Will this be the point when the film running in reverse becomes jammed and the projector light burns a hole in it?   


Putin knows that if he loses power, he will be arrested for corruption and marched off to spend his remaining years in a Siberian prison.   Important to staying in power is to have the support of the citizens.  I see the undoing of the Soviet Collapse as his way to  curry public favor, as exemplified by the 80% who were surveyed in favor of Putin.   

However, this land grab is risky.  It antagonizes the West, and if Putin pushes too far, the West will reduce its investments in Russia, and that will harm the economy.  Public support will decline quickly if the economy falters.

Actually Gator, many people make this false assumption.


First, there are no statements from him that he wants to recreate the communist utopia.


Yes, he says that the Soviet implosion was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. Have you heard anything else substantiating the recreation of the communist utopia?


NYET.


What he would like is the recreation of the Czarist empire with a benevolent dictator at its head. Something like Peter I.


Problem is that those days are long gone.


However, many in Rossiya are swallowing that hook, line and sinker. But then again, do you really expect anything different from a populace that has been subjugated all their lives?


That is why it is imperative to bring Ukraine back to their fold and squash any semblance of people's representative government.


Boy, brings back memories back in 1999 when the only response I heard was: You don't understand, we are peaceful people.

[krimster2]

Gator,
   This has already been done in a measured way, for example all major media (print/TV) in Russia is state owned, major oil and gas producers are state owned like GazProm Rosneft, Yukos, plus the major airline Aeroflot, you will tend to find that many of these state owned companies were once owned by oligarch’s not loyal to Putin (like Khodorkovsky and Berezoksky), the ones who are loyal to Putin get to keep what they stole.  This is the way the system works.  Russia is ruled by a kleptocracy that became an aristocracy, and who have already paved the way for new kleptocratic opportunities in Crimea, pity the poor Ukrainian kleptocrats who are about to lose what they stole “fair and square”.  This was what the Crimean referendum was really all about, “Do you want Ukrainian or Russian Oligarch’s to own everything of value in Crimea” .  Gator, the kleptocracy is more important than the state, for it is the state that exists to serve the needs of the kleptocrats and not the other way around.  Loyalty to the state is the thing you use to control the masses through propaganda, which in Russia doesn’t have a lot of depth, (call your opponents fascists, appeal to patriotism and nostalgia), but don’t actually give the masses anything tangible (keep that for the kleptocrats), just give the masses their emotions about “Russia”, but the state is not loyal to the masses, it is loyal to its master, the same way the kleptocrats must be. 

Everything was beautifully explained by Sergei Leonidovich Magnitsky, a mild mannered accountant hired by an American hedge fund to analyze investment opportunities in Russia, discovered that here had been a large-scale theft from the Russian state sanctioned and carried out by Russian officials (i.e. Russia was full of “Yuris”), and that investing in these “companies” run by crooks might not be a good idea. 

I shamessly take the following from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky

“Magnitsky was an auditor at the Moscow law firm Firestone Duncan. He represented the investment advisory firm Hermitage Capital Management,  over the years of its operation, Hermitage had on a number of occasions supplied to the press information related to corporate and governmental misconduct and corruption within state-owned Russian enterprises.  Hermitage's company co-founder Bill Browder was soon expelled from Russia as a national threat. Browder himself has indicated that he represented only a threat "to corrupt politicians and bureaucrats" in Russia, believing that the ouster was conducted to leave his company open for exploitation...”

Magnitsky of course was later jailed on fake charges and murdered in Prison.

Putin, is the mafia Don, the king of kings, he will never get rid of the system that keeps him in power (he can’t), but he will control it, and those who do not kiss his super bowl ring will risk losing his favor

[Muzh]

You see Doll, this is why I love America so much. Especially around 4:45.


http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/xne6vj/cover-up-in-the-air---what-would-reagan-do-

[krimster2]

Muzh,
  Yes, in America, the media is free to criticize American politicians, but they can do that in Russia as well

[Muzh]

Muzh,
  Yes, in America, the media is free to criticize American politicians, but they can do that in Russia as well

As long as they don't criticize Putin, they'll stay alive. Anybody else is fair game, right? 

[Doll]

Here

I did read it. Where does this data say that people are happy about dying Ukrainians?
It is very good that the president has 80% approval of what he does. Good for him.
Does Obama have such rating? NO? YOU elected him.
The article (again) has nothing to do with what is happening in Ukraine.

[Doll]

I'll agree with you on this point, but I don't think it is in the way you believe.


Most of this conflict, in terms of Western Ukraine, has its genesis in the period from 1945 to 1989.  Western Ukrainians were ruled not from Kyiv, but from Moscow.  The oppression in that region was off the charts.   Their desire for their own language and culture was defined as "bourgeois nationalism", to be eradicated, and bourgeois nationalists dismissed from their jobs or imprisoned.  Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda, was a Komsomol leader, with an expertise in nationalism (which of course, as a loyal commie, he espoused should be eradicated).


So, naturally, when the USSR collapsed, the speakers of this language would demand it be spoken.  I'd argue that the unnatural oppression of Ukrainian language during Soviet times is partly responsible for the extreme nationalism one can find in regions today.


In the Donbass, no one was forcing Ukrainian on the locals.  Even the language law which precipitated riots there would have protected Russian language rights, as they are enshrined in Ukraine's constitution.


I have posted links to surveys, taken from January to March 2014, which prove that the majority of those in the Donbass, some 80%, wanted to remain a part of Ukraine.  That was even after the infamous language law, which the then acting president repealed. 

I have posted a link, written by a Russian journalist for a Western source, in which Strelkov, who is not from the Donbass, has advanced the Russian state's interests elsewhere, and who currently lives in Moscow, has stated that in the region, less than 1,000 locals were willing to fight for the Donbass' independence.  I have posted links demonstrating that the leaders of the current conflict are all Russian citizens with FSB/GRU connections.  They are not locals.  So, yes, I believe one can trace this to Russia.

See? So you yourself explained (in this post) that Putin was not involved at all.
What is this thread about then?

[Doll]

I am no apologist for Putin but he has grown the Russian economy
quite substantially since he started. The standard of living has significantly
improved.

+1000
Between 2002 when I moved to the USA and now Russia has improved a lot. My feeling is- it has never been so stable economically as it is now.
The standard of life  is quite high there. I see it MYSELF as I go there every year, my son lived there and shares whith me.
Only RWD is doubting 

[Doll]

Putin knows that if he loses power, he will be arrested for corruption and marched off to spend his remaining years in a Siberian prison

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .

[Doll]

As can you.  The evidence of Russian involvement in making this conflict much more prolonged, and violent, is clear. The narrative of this being the protection of "Russians" is false. 

Where is this "evidence"? Show.

[GQBlues]

Where is this "evidence"? Show.

Doll-

Everyone in the world by now believes that Russia had been sending heavy weapons into Ukraine in support of the rebels. It is also widely known the world over that missiles are being fired from Russia unto Ukraine. There had been so many CLEAR, UNDENIABLE, UNCONTESTED evidences the US intelligence had compiled and given all of us.

If you really would like to know, I would like for you to watch and listen to this video. This is when these evidences were presented to the world. It told everyone how EXACTLY did we get all the evidences to convince the entire world that without a shadow of doubt. Now let it tell you.

This is the session that these evidences were given out. You wanted to know where and how and what, then watch and listen very carefully.

Matt, the reporter, is being a pain in the butt. But then, I believe according to US Intelligence, all the *Matts* are anyway...

[Manny]

Read my recent post. Putin/Russia cannot be trusted. That is how he is ruining Russia.

All your narratives seem to be penned from the typical western anti-Russian stance we are all encouraged to adopt. Instead of recycling anti-Russian propaganda, why not consider why so much of the western media encourages the sheeple to despise Russia.

Consider a different point of view.

[Doll]

You wanted to know where and how and what, then watch and listen very carefully.

I did. She did not present any evidence , she didn't refer to any source of information rather than "we believe"
Just like you guys.
 

Everyone in the world by now believes that Russia had been sending heavy weapons into Ukraine in support of the rebels. It is also widely known the world over that missiles are being fired from Russia unto Ukraine. There had been so many CLEAR, UNDENIABLE, UNCONTESTED evidences the US intelligence had compiled and given all of us.

Same- "everybody believes" and nothin else.
Dear, US intelligence did not give anything "to us".
 

[BillyB]

Where is this "evidence"? Show.

There is a lot of smart people in America and Europe who have seen the evidence. Some of it can be found on the internet. Do you believe the leaders of these countries are willing to hurt their economies getting into an economic war with Russia without evidence? Putin can fool some of the people some of the time but he can't fool all of the people all of the time. He does have enough people out there willing to be fooled and supporting him to proceed. He just sent 15,000 troops back to the border and began firing live artillery from his side of the border into Ukraine. The civil war isn't going as planned. He's going to have to get more involved. He has an objective in east Ukraine just as he did in Crimea. I believe he is a man who will accomplish his objective unless there is someone more powerful in the way.

[Gator]

Doll,

You seem to have studied the situation in Ukraine.  Based on your understanding, would you please answer a couple of questions:

1.  In your opinion does the Russian government support the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine by:

            a.  Recruiting Russian mercenaries to fight with the Ukrainian separatists?
           
            b.  Sending heavy weapons (tanks, rocket launchers, Buk anti-aircraft missiles) to the separatists?

            c.  Training separatists and mercenaries to operate the weapons?

            d.  Providing ex-FSB personnel  to lead the separatist movement?


2.  What is your best guess on what made MK17 explode in midair and crash, killing 298 passengers?

[GQBlues]

I did. She did not present any evidence , she didn't refer to any source of information rather than "we believe"
Just like you guys.
 Same- "everybody believes" and nothin else.
Dear, US intelligence did not give anything "to us".

 

Just believe it. Everyone else apparently does. So ha-hah to you. Why would Obama / US lie? Neither is capable of such. How dare you!

Have you tried tweeters, Facebook? All the classified intelligence you need to know are all in those medium in addition to youtube!

[Doll]

There is a lot of smart people in America and Europe who have seen the evidence. Some of it can be found on the internet. Do you believe the leaders of these countries are willing to hurt their economies getting into an economic war with Russia without evidence? Putin can fool some of the people some of the time but he can't fool all of the people all of the time. He does have enough people out there willing to be fooled and supporting him to proceed. He just sent 15,000 troops back to the border and began firing live artillery from his side of the border into Ukraine. The civil war isn't going as planned. He's going to have to get more involved. He has an objective in east Ukraine just as he did in Crimea. I believe he is a man who will accomplish his objective unless there is someone more powerful in the way.

Evidence?

[Doll]

Doll,

You seem to have studied the situation in Ukraine.  Based on your understanding,  2.  What is your best guess on what made MK17 explode in midair and crash, killing 298 passengers?

I don't know about 1.
As for 2, I think it was a mistake.

[Doll]

Just believe it. Everyone else apparently does. So ha-hah to you. Why would Obama / US lie? Neither is capable of such. How dare you!

Have you tried tweeters, Facebook? All the classified intelligence you need to know are all in those medium in addition to youtube!

Thank you for answering for me

[Doll]

There is a lot of smart people in America and Europe who have seen the evidence. Some of it can be found on the internet. Do you believe the leaders of these countries are willing to hurt their economies getting into an economic war with Russia without evidence?

Prove
Likewise Putin doesn't want to hurt his country.

 
 
    He just sent 15,000 troops back to the border and began firing live artillery from his side of the border into Ukraine.

Evidence?
 
 
 

He has an objective in east Ukraine just as he did in Crimea. I believe he is a man who will accomplish his objective unless there is someone more powerful in the way.

Wha is this objective?

[BillyB]

Doll, it's a good thing you're not in charge of a nation. There would be covert operations and support for your political enemies to overthrow you because you refuse to believe. Your job and/or your country would be gone because it would be too late to react after you figure out what's going on. You are shocked that Putin would have something to do with what's going on in Ukraine. We have people shocked that America promoted democracy in Ukraine. When they finally figure it out, they think the American government is corrupt. Just because Obama didn't let in on the what he does everyday doesn't mean the American government is corrupt. Putin has interests in Ukraine and it'll be foolish to let everybody know his next moves. Satellite observations can see some things. That's the evidence you've been asking about. Don't ask for it anymore. Do your own homework.

[Doll]

Satellite observations can see some things

Where is the infor?
 

 

[Doll]

Doll, it's a good thing you're not in charge of a nation.

You never know