Four Year Wonders Got Married: Ochka and ML

[ML]

Highs in upper teens and lows in single digits in middle America

Boe, Northkape and other of you 'northerners' please take these temps back where they belong!!

[ML]

Our Ukrainian group told wife and I about a recently arrived refugee, wife and two children.

They are being sponsored by Catholic Church, but not sure if they are Catholic [ I guess they probably will be at some point !!  :-) ]

Anyway, he is thrilled to be making some money himself (helping with our renovation project) rather than completely relying on the sponsors.

He has degree in Mechanical Engineering, so knows his way around doing things.

I am a little unhappy that he is here rather than in military in Ukraine.
Wife can't get a real answer as to how he got out of Ukraine, but he did tell her that no bribes were paid.

They lived in Kharkiv and their apartment building was bombed.  Lived in bathroom for several weeks.  Then apartment was bombed again  so they moved to a town west of Kharkiv.  That town was bombed, so they moved to another town which was also bombed, etc., etc.

He is quite nervous and jumpy, probably PTSD; but a good worker.

[ML]

Funny tidbit.

I do all my own plumbing, electrical, woodwork, drywall, painting, flooring,  and everything else except concrete.

The Ukrainian refugee asked what Engineering degree I had.

He was quite shocked when I told him my degrees were in Accounting, Finance and International business.

[ML]

Just remembered that one of my nieces and her husband own a plumbing business in Ohio, so I checked with her regarding salaries, etc.

Recently they started paying new workers $18 an hour, those with 3 years  experience $28 dollars an hour and master plumbers $40 an hour.

They usually send out 2 men on each job and bill at $200 per hour total.

Don't know what they earn from the business (which they were lucky to have inherited from his father) but . . .

Aside from 4 business trucks, he buys a new monster truck every 2-3 years, she buys a new SUV every 2-3 years and they bought a couple of years ago a high end Mustang.  They also have large boat and large travel trailer and very nice house.

He goes on fishing trips to Florida and hunting trips to the north every year.
She travel almost every other month to distant states to visit relatives.

They have adult children who do not work in the business; don't know exactly why.

[Trenchcoat]

Just remembered that one of my nieces and her husband own a plumbing business in Ohio, so I checked with her regarding salaries, etc.

Recently they started paying new workers $18 an hour, those with 3 years  experience $28 dollars an hour and master plumbers $40 an hour.

They usually send out 2 men on each job and bill at $200 per hour total.

Don't know what they earn from the business (which they were lucky to have inherited from his father) but . . .

Aside from 4 business trucks, he buys a new monster truck every 2-3 years, she buys a new SUV every 2-3 years and they bought a couple of years ago a high end Mustang.  They also have large boat and large travel trailer and very nice house.

He goes on fishing trips to Florida and hunting trips to the north every year.
She travel almost every other month to distant states to visit relatives.

They have adult children who do not work in the business; don't know exactly why.

Owning the business and not lying around in some awkward position doing the actual plumbing work is no doubt a better position to be in. Aside from taxes and costs I would guess that they are making more money then those they employ per hour.

It all varies, my guess is that it is probably easier to make money in plumbing in the US than it is the UK. Partly due to less competition coming forth than you would be set against and partly as 2tallbill allured to that the tax regime/society is different. At its worst here a lot of local council's are going near bankrupt and are having to have the government bail them out. The reason? Money has been provided over the past 20-30 for the Social Housing crowd to be housed for free and have many kids on benefit on what could be an unlimited number of kids. Now the government only pays child benefit on the first two children a couple have. It's really the housing that counts though, if you have children, particularly if a single mother you go to the top of the housing ladder for free social housing (unless you work then you will pay for your social housing but it's still cheaper than the going rate by up to a third but it's why many of the social crowd don't work). So it all means the social housing crowd has been expanding in the UK exponentially. The kids produced all expect the same mostly, to live if the state and so the Councils financial on the social housing it provides burden grows &
grows.

There's also another issue to it all which is that genetically those in social housing tend to be the worst. Sometimes there are good news stories of someone who has made it good but mostly they are fucked up from the get go by just having a poor accumulation of not particularly helpful genes. Add to that bad to non existent upbringing from parents and often drug problems and the country gets burdened down by a whole load of useless people that would possibly only ever be any good in a forced labour camp.

So paying for all that costs a lot both at local and national government level. That of course means that everyone else has to pay, way, way more tax so surpressing take home pay after tax.

[2tallbill]

Highs in upper teens and lows in single digits in middle America

Boe, Northkape and other of you 'northerners' please take these temps back where they belong!!

Meanwhile in Texas,
The tomatoes in our garden are not ready to eat yet, but we have green tomatoes on the vine.
When August rolls around, I won't be bragging as much.

[Bee Farmer]

Trench,
  A LOT of plumbers in the US don't put pieces of copper pipe together, and don't have to get in awkward positions.

It is extremely rare to see copper pipe being used anymore. 

A lot of plumbers start out working for plumbing companies doing new construction.  Contractors in housing developments will put up a house shell.  It has outside walls, a roof, subfloors, and stud walls inside.  These are really easy plumbing jobs, and it is a great way for new guys to learn how everything fits together.  The hardest thing they have to deal with is tripping over the electricians who are trying to do the wiring at the same time they are trying to do the plumbing. 

With new construction, it's easy and you get a standard 40 hours a week.  But it also pays at the bottom.

Once you know what you are doing, some guys will get into residential home plumbing.  These are the guys who have to get in awkward positions in someone's house to fix plumbing problems.  They have to hunt for jobs, and you won't always have 40 hours of work every week, so plumbers have to charge accordingly.

Or you will see plumbers start their own plumbing business and still do new construction.  They already know who the contractors are since they have been doing new construction for the past few years, and the contractors know if they do a good job or not.  So it's easy to start your own plumbing business, and have tons of work because you are already friends with the contractors.  The jobs won't pay quite as good as doing residential home plumbing, but you don't have to hunt for work, you don't have to get in awkward positions, and you don't have to deal with customers who can be annoying.

You can also get into industrial plumbing, and doing plumbing work when they build factories.  Some of this is much bigger pipes.  You will use cranes to install this piping.  Sometimes it is welded pipe, and sometimes the pipes are bolted together with flanges on the ends.

These are all plumbing jobs, but the pay scales can vary widely.  So it's hard to look at statistic and determine how much a plumber earns.

Peter Zeihan just posted an interesting video this morning explaining why there is a shortage of blue collar workers in the US.  The US had a large Baby Boomer population.  When they entered the workforce, there was so much competition for jobs that it brought the price of labor down.  As a result, both parents needed to get jobs to support the household, bringing the cost of labor down even more.  So they told their kids to go to college and get white collar jobs.  After doing this for the past 50 years, now we have more white collar workers than we need, and there is a shortage of blue collar workers.  He claims that if you get a 6 week welding degree, you can earn more money than someone with a 4 year college degree and 5 years of work experience.    Not only that, but the large Baby Boomer population is retiring, and the Generation Z workers entering the workplace are our smallest generation yet.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench,
  A LOT of plumbers in the US don't put pieces of copper pipe together, and don't have to get in awkward positions.

It is extremely rare to see copper pipe being used anymore. 

A lot of plumbers start out working for plumbing companies doing new construction.  Contractors in housing developments will put up a house shell.  It has outside walls, a roof, subfloors, and stud walls inside.  These are really easy plumbing jobs, and it is a great way for new guys to learn how everything fits together.  The hardest thing they have to deal with is tripping over the electricians who are trying to do the wiring at the same time they are trying to do the plumbing. 

With new construction, it's easy and you get a standard 40 hours a week.  But it also pays at the bottom.

Once you know what you are doing, some guys will get into residential home plumbing.  These are the guys who have to get in awkward positions in someone's house to fix plumbing problems.  They have to hunt for jobs, and you won't always have 40 hours of work every week, so plumbers have to charge accordingly.

Or you will see plumbers start their own plumbing business and still do new construction.  They already know who the contractors are since they have been doing new construction for the past few years, and the contractors know if they do a good job or not.  So it's easy to start your own plumbing business, and have tons of work because you are already friends with the contractors.  The jobs won't pay quite as good as doing residential home plumbing, but you don't have to hunt for work, you don't have to get in awkward positions, and you don't have to deal with customers who can be annoying.

You can also get into industrial plumbing, and doing plumbing work when they build factories.  Some of this is much bigger pipes.  You will use cranes to install this piping.  Sometimes it is welded pipe, and sometimes the pipes are bolted together with flanges on the ends.

These are all plumbing jobs, but the pay scales can vary widely.  So it's hard to look at statistic and determine how much a plumber earns.

Peter Zeihan just posted an interesting video this morning explaining why there is a shortage of blue collar workers in the US.  The US had a large Baby Boomer population.  When they entered the workforce, there was so much competition for jobs that it brought the price of labor down.  As a result, both parents needed to get jobs to support the household, bringing the cost of labor down even more.  So they told their kids to go to college and get white collar jobs.  After doing this for the past 50 years, now we have more white collar workers than we need, and there is a shortage of blue collar workers.  He claims that if you get a 6 week welding degree, you can earn more money than someone with a 4 year college degree and 5 years of work experience.    Not only that, but the large Baby Boomer population is retiring, and the Generation Z workers entering the workplace are our smallest generation yet.

Beefarmuh, I know we often don't agree on a lot on here but a lot of what you said I agree on. Zeihan, I think has it roughly right here though is I think slightly inaccurate Inna few points. I would say that it was Generation X rather than Millennials as he states where the shift towards training up and aspiring for white collar jobs occurred. At least in the UK and I would assume in the US as well. As a member of Generation X schools had a focus on academia here in the UK, parents often voiced their disdain for blue collar work which was often low paid at the time and seen as low status and grubby. They along with teachers, and the children themselves came to see an office job as desirable, clean and higher status work leading to something. I assume you like me are a member of Generation X and quite possibly had the same values around while growing up through the education system, etc.

Again Zeihan fails to consider the expected increase in automation and robotics that is likely to decrease the need for labour. I don't think though he is too far off track on this one.

Here in the UK copper piping is still frequently used. Plastic piping is around for water pipes and while it can be a little cheaper is not necessarily as cheap as some might think moreso for the connections due to the complex mouldings, etc. I can see the advantage of plastic water pipes but the housing I have worked on had copper so I stuck with that. Copper pipe is easier to work with than in that past as the cheap ETFE tape can make it a lot easier to get a tight water tight seal using compression fittings than the old compounds used to get with a lot less risk of overtightening and spreading the olive. On top of that they are better than plastic pipe for killing off bacteria which is a great benefit of copper while plastic pipe can carry more risk of bacterial problems such as legionella. I reckon it could easily be foreseen that in the future plastic pipe might end up being ripped out and needing replacement with copper pipe to avert such situations as it's one of those things that may become too much of a problem.

I think the situation you sum up for plumbing is generally true and in effect true for most industries - the easier the job the less pay, the harder the job the more pay. In some respect there is almost a natural equilibrium with most forms of work, if supply of labour falls off then pay increases, if supply falls of enough that it becomes very lucrative people get to hear and everyone wants in. At one point in the UK there was a big shortage of Heating Engineers, they were making real food money as a result, then Poland joined the EU and their Heating Engineers came over here to get a piece of the action and bye, bye went all of that. The money was still ok, but not as good as it was, all those training up to get the real good money Heating Engineers were getting were likely very bummed by the Polish turning up on the scene, lol.

Here I am not sure about new build construction, it happens but perhaps not as large or as frequent as the US. They might also go for more established guys here as well. Most will probably have to find work in the residential sector, that's where the work will be most frequent in the UK. That market is a pain, as you've already stated, problem customers, customers who are difficult, stand over you, disagreeable, awkward and sometimes after you've done the work won't pay and try to find every excuse under sun not to pay, then if you get shitty or take them to small claims court leave a bad as review for you despite them giving you thd run around. Another thing to bear in mind is that id self employed you need to start putting money aside from the money you make to buy a new van when the old one is knackered. A lot of people miss that one and don't calculate it into the equation thinking all the money they take above up front costs is profit.

So the bottom line is the headline salary as you note is not necessarily accurate to what you will get as you point out there are times when there aren't full days of work, etc, etc. A lot of the time at least here in the UK people go chasing the golden goose of what they see or hear is something that you can make a little if money with. Only after having madd the journey of lengthy & expensive training do they find out that what was offered is not what you get. The Employer often turns around and says something like, 'that's if you work a full week at maximum hours and do all the work speedily and efficiently'. When the reality may be hard jobs that are difficult and slow to resolve and take many times longer to do than was first hoped so cutting earnings significantly from those advertised.

I personally don't have any inclination to do plumbing work as I know it will be another case of once you get there you won't get nearly the money you hoped for and you'll get a load of bother you could do without, all of the above plus customers calling & emailing you all the time, disagreements, accounts & tax bother, wrenches slipping and the like causing minor cuts & grazes on your hand, etc. All of that I can do without.

[ML]

Orthodox Easter Greetings to all.

Eat lots of Paska and other goodies.

[ML]

20 years ago now wife and I first met.

[ML]

Met on Internet  (not really true, but)

Surprised we are still married because . . .

She returns everthing she gets on the Internet.

[ML]

 At least 20 U.S. citizens are in
Russian jails, six of them since
Journal reporter Evan Gersh-
kovich was arrested in March
2023, in an apparent strategy to
put leverage on the U.S.

Wall Street Journal  22 July 2024

[krimster2]

it's easy to avoid bein detained in Russia
depending on what's on yur VISA, you may even have an interview upon arrival
take yur pick of FSB, SVR or GRU, and make yurself useful to them
like how to jam GPS L5 instead of just GPS L1 signals
or the effect of ground clutter on all Raytheon radars, this kinda intel will appeal to the GRU
in exchange you get "a card"

but that don't protect ya from alchogolicki ulitsya gopnickki , pissed off over US weapons that maimed their friends
card ain't good fer that

bizness really hard in Russia now, even gettin paid is a problem
only cash is worthless rubles
since the war, inflation is up 50% in Russia
everyone's broke
you can't sell nothin to Russians now, let alone covert the profits to $$$ or bitcoin
all Russian bitcoin/drug exchanges like Hydra are gone to
no way ANYBODY can sell tons of Delta 8 vapes to Russians like you could pre-war

Russian gov spends 40% of it's budget on the war
everything else in Russia is phuqued cuz resources are diverted
I wouldn't wanna have a major illness in Russia these days, even if yur "connected" and wealthy, you sick, you phuqued in Russia now

[ML]

For weeks before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, John J. Sullivan, the U.S. ambassador in Moscow, was warning that it would happen. When troops finally crossed the border, he was woken in the middle of the night with a prearranged code. The signal was even more bracing than the February cold: it meant that Sullivan needed to collect his bodyguards and get to the embassy as soon as possible. The war had begun, and the world would never be the same.

In Midnight in Moscow, Sullivan leads readers into the offices of the U.S. embassy and the halls of the Kremlin during this climactic period—among the most dangerous since World War II. He shows how the Putin regime repeatedly lied about its intentions to invade Ukraine in the weeks leading up to the attack, while also devoting huge numbers of personnel and vast resources to undermining the U.S. diplomatic mission in Russia. And he explains how, when Putin ultimately gave the order to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, he proved that Russia was not just at war with its neighbor: it was also at war, in a very real sense, with the United States, and with everything that it represents. But while Putin decided how this conflict started, its ending will be shaped by us.
 
With his unique perspective on a pivotal moment in world history, Sullivan shows how our relationship with Russia has deteriorated, where it’s headed, and how far we should be prepared to go in standing up to the menace in Moscow.
 

[ML]

Just got back from annual picnic.
5 families with one or more spouse from Ukraine.
Plus each family (other than wife) has one or more parents here sheltering from terrorist Russian invasion.
And there were around 8 Ukrainian students from the University.
So a big turn-out with a lot of traditional food.
I am fairly stuffed, as usual.

Previously there were some Russians in attendance, but they stopped coming after invasion, even as  most said they were against the invasion.
I think they just started feeling more and more uncomfortable.

One Russian gal told one of the Ukrainians that she wouldn't come as she was just really embarrassed to be a Russian.

[olgac]

I was invited to a Ukrainian picnic here too, but I am not going because I don't speak Ukrainian (though I understand it)
and don't feel like forcing people to speak Russian on my account.

[ML]

I was invited to a Ukrainian picnic here too, but I am not going because I don't speak Ukrainian (though I understand it)
and don't feel like forcing people to speak Russian on my account.

Good decision.

After having gone to many of these get-togethers, when the next one comes along I tell wife that she should go by herself so all can speak Ukrainian constantly.

But she still insists that I go with her.

All of the professors speak good English, also the students, and most of  the older parents are taking English lessons.

But I feel they would just as soon not have to talk in English at these events.

I talk a lot to a French guy (in English) who is married to one of the Ukrainian gals.  Both are professsors at Univ.
He tried to learn Ukrainian for quite some time, but eventually gave up as it was taking too much time from his research.
He speaks French to their 2 children, wife speaks Ukrainian to them and they use English in school, of course.
His wife speaks Ukrainian, Russian, English and French !!
The others all speak Ukrainian, Russian and English.
But they have all stopped using Russian at all.

They all suffer trauma, but one mother has more serious mental problems as she stayed in basement of their dacha near Kharkiv for several months and listened to bombs and missiles constantly.

[olgac]

Yes I understand This is why I want to be respectful.

[krimster2]

When I lived in Ukraine,
Ukrainian women would bake me cookies so I would have sex with them!!!
they didn't  know it,
and I would NEVER tell them,
that I would "DO IT" even without the cookies!!!

[ML]

This first couple was involved in the latest swap.
Read the full article in WSJ.

- - - - -

A Quiet Married Couple Exposed as Russian Spies
Wall Street Journal June 18, 2024

LJUBLJANA, Slovenia—The young Argentine couple in the pastel-colored house lived a seemingly ordinary suburban life, driving around this sleepy European capital in a white Kia Ceed sedan, always paying their taxes on time and never so much as getting a parking ticket.
- - - - - - -

Created in the early days of the Soviet Union and dramatized in the TV show “The Americans,” a previous generation of Russian illegals in the 1940s had played a key role in stealing American atomic secrets. Stalin, who saw the illegals as a crucial tool for influencing the policies of adversaries and gathering intelligence on potential threats, created specialized training programs and deployed them in strategic Western capitals.

The program has been reinvigorated by Putin, who allegedly worked with illegals during his time as a KGB officer in East Germany and has sung patriotic Soviet songs with agents caught in the U.S. and returned to Moscow in prisoner swaps. “These are special people, of special quality, of special convictions, of a special character,” he said about illegal spies in a 2017 interview with state television.  It is highly likely that Putin receives personal briefings on illegals’ exploits around the world, said Dan Hoffman, a former CIA station chief in Moscow.

In the “Operation Ghost Stories” case, the FBI said Russian illegals spent years establishing a seemingly normal existence in the U.S.: They married, bought homes, raised families, and integrated into American society. One of them studied at Harvard and another earned two master’s degrees from Seton Hall University. Two others worked in real estate.
- - - - - -

Maria Rosa Mayer Muños ran an online art gallery, telling acquaintances she’d left Argentina after being robbed in Buenos Aires by an armed gang at a red light. Her husband, Ludwig Gisch, ran an IT startup. Described by neighbors in their middle-class district of Črnuče as “normal” and “quiet,” the husband and wife appeared to be global citizens: switching from English and German with friends to accentless Spanish with their son and daughter, who attended the British International School.

Yet almost everything about the family from number 35 Primožičeva street was a carefully constructed lie, according to Slovenian and Western intelligence officials. Gisch’s real name is Artem Viktorovich Dultsev, born in the Russian autonomous republic of Bashkortostan and an elite officer in Russia’s foreign intelligence service, the SVR, according to the officials and court documents.

. . . . .

[ML]

As Olga mentioned, some of the women in her other discussion group didn't think they should have to work if coming to USA since if they were going to work, they could just do it in FSU.

Likewise, some of my wife's female friends back in Ukraine are aghast when she tells them of the manual work she is doing on the renovation of our second house along with working in her huge garden.

They say:  You are supposed to be living in paradise . . . not working like that !!

[olgac]

Well in Your case I guess you don't HAVE to do manual labor Yourself but you just both like to. We are kind of the same way
But re: US being a paradise, this is unfortunately how many FSUW envision it and this is why there is so much disappointment upon arrival.
They think money literally grows on trees here

Many men even go out of their way to show exactly how much they make after taxes, how much is left over from their bills, show the exact videos
of their house and still hear from a FSU woman that if she works, her money is hers only and how she wants to hire help to clean the house etc etc.
It's very hard to break this stereotye.

[Trenchcoat]

But re: US being a paradise, this is unfortunately how many FSUW envision it and this is why there is so much disappointment upon arrival.
They think money literally grows on trees here

Many men even go out of their way to show exactly how much they make after taxes, how much is left over from their bills, show the exact videos
of their house and still hear from a FSU woman that if she works, her money is hers only and how she wants to hire help to clean the house etc etc.
It's very hard to break this stereotye.

It's the same for the UK. Ukrainian women/FSW come here and they think money grows on trees, that the guy they are with can just pay for any and everything that their heart so desires and/or that they can easily get a job where they will earn big money. It's not easy to bring them to see reality as I get the impression that the dream is what they have focused so heavily upon and taken on board that their minds just don't want to accept reality lol.

My present girl kind of had that vision I think and still to some extent does, she's in the UK at the moment. However, some of it has turned to disillusionment moreso with the job situation here which she is not finding easy to gain employment. A lot of asylum seekers, migrants in general seem to have the idea that they will get catered for and the seas parted for them, and anything much less than that and they are not happy. Myself while I am at the slightly wealthy end compared to many in the UK I think my girl has been left slightly underwhelmed by what I have in terms of housing, car, etc. in that it's likely not quite in line with what her vision of how it should be here is. It's not helped by the fact that a lot of those in the Ukraine host scheme tend to have large houses so that can play into strengthening the view that most UK people live like that while in reality few do.

My girl too expects to keep everything from what she earns, this I don't mind though as I generally keep most from what I earn apart from paying for dates & other stuff for her usually through my own choice too. However I can see that if wanting to buy a house together it could be an issue if the girl doesn't want to contribute half & half to it. I'm ok as I already own my own property outright even though it's a small property but it might of course hinder getting a larger property. Worse of course is the previous girl I was with a few years ago.

She wished to stay at home while I paid for her upkeep, bought her stuff, etc. She didn't want to work any more after marriage to me not even part time even though she was working full time in the short period that I was dating her. I don't think she enjoyed work, she was working in retail in Ukraine and I guess saw not working as the payoff for being with an older foreign guy. I think with most FSW that realising who you are with by finding out what her expectations are is key to finding a fit for that relationship for the man.

That can be an issue if the above girl my thoughts were, 'hey if she can just do some part time work, she can keep her money from that and spend it in herself, clothing, etc. That would relieve the burden of me if paying out for myself and her with everything. She didn't want to know though, shd could only see the vision of finding a wealthy western guy so she didn't have to work and she refused to let go of that vision.

For both girls though it's whether the man can adjust to fit. Few FSW I think will move from their dream/vision of how things will be, it's why they have give fir a western man most of the time after all, so it's pretty strong in their mind. Better to see if as a man and you really want to be with the girl if you can adapt what you are doing to suit what the girl wants. What some girls want is going to be an easier fit than what other girls want. The second girl here I would have had to either get a better paying job (likely more stressful) or do more hours in a big way, neither likely fun for me, and drop my objection to her not working again all. If I had been a very wealthy guy it would probably have been easier to fit with what she wanted. The first girl is an easier fit, she at least is prepared to self support herself which makes it easier though if course likely a bit less of the housework from her. Both can have their issues it's really just whether their ideal dream can be made to fit in with our lives.

[ML]

My new bull gave me an idea.
I recently spent $6,500 on this registered Black Angus bull. I put him out with the herd but he just ate grass and wouldn't even look at a cow.
I was beginning to think I had paid more for that bull than he was worth. Anyway . . .  I had the Vet come and take a look at him. He said,, the bull was very healthy, but possibly just a little young.
So he gave me some pills to feed him once per day. The bull started to service the cows within two days . . . all my cows!
He even broke through the fence and bred with all of my neighbor's cows! He's like a machine!
I don't know what was in the pills the Vet gave him . . . but they kind of taste like peppermint.

[krimster2]

sounds like a lotta BULL...
becuz that's number 72, in the Russian Prison joke book...