New member seeking some guidance

[Boethius]

Actually, on second thought I don't believe you. No matter.

About what?  Liking women?  Trust me, I have a radar for that.

[John_A]

No, it has little to do with bedding them.   Finding and bedding women there is really not an issue, or so I have observed. 


It is a very macho society, partly because of its proletarian Soviet roots.    I don't think Western men are softer, the culture is just different.

john

well im glad you posted back on the experience
it has hopefully been a learning curve , and you will take some good things away form the expereince for next time


you will get varying advice and opinions , take what is helpful and apply it , ignore the rest

its forum after all , so you will get differences

thats what makes it interesting 

SX

Its not that Western men are "weak," there's a completely different paradigm at play. In the west if you lay it on thick, especially in the beginning, it is seen as begging/supplicating and it scares emotionally healthy women off. I was very respectful, but from the standpoint of a western woman. . . I can see how that wouldn't measure up to a Russian woman's expectations. Russian women want to be treated like royalty. Got it. Doing this = "being the man." Got it.

Regardless, she was pouty, difficult and completely unpredictable less than a month into online correspondence. That things weren't flowing so smoothly that early was a bad sign.

This is someone I'm supposed to happily spend 6k to visit (passport, visa, travel, lodgings, entertainment, gifts, winter clothes, and, when its said and done practically a full year's salary for our princess)? That and for the  first time for 5 days in the sub-siberian clime of Nakhodka in the winter? To see her and only her? This is someone I want to spend the rest of my life with an have children with? Do I have "fool" tattooed on my forehead?
 

[John_A]

john

well im glad you posted back on the experience
it has hopefully been a learning curve , and you will take some good things away form the expereince for next time


you will get varying advice and opinions , take what is helpful and apply it , ignore the rest

its forum after all , so you will get differences

thats what makes it interesting 

SX

Truth.  I wish there was a way you could block individual posters though,

[Boethius]

You can.  Go to Profile, and on the left hand side is "Modify Profile".  You can add posters to the ignore list.

[Boethius]

In the west if you lay it on thick, especially in the beginning, it is seen as begging/supplicating and it scares emotionally healthy women off. I was very respectful, but from the standpoint of a western woman. . . I can see how that wouldn't measure up to a Russian woman's expectations. Russian women want to be treated like royalty. Got it. Doing this = "being the man." Got it.

I am not certain Western women are scared off if a man lays it on thick.  I think most would just generally assume he's insincere.  But no Western woman would be upset at receiving flowers.

I think it is always best to be yourself.

[John_A]

Thanks for the tip... Maybe I'll stick around some.

[southernX]

BO -But no Western woman would be upset at receiving flowers.

ah sorry i have to share this with you bo
many years ago ,i sent flowers to my fiancee at her work , i thought she would be stoked with the gesture 

on my arrival to pick her up she was not impressed with the gesture at all ,and she let me know about it     totally annoyed and claimed to be embarressed by it ??

suffice to say i never did send her flowers again


SX

[JayH]

 Do I have "fool" tattooed on my forehead?
 

Perhaps if you did that all doubt would disappear!!

[Boethius]

ah sorry i have to share this with you bo
many years ago ,i sent flowers to my fiancee at her work , i thought she would be stoked with the gesture 

on my arrival to pick her up she was not impressed with the gesture at all ,and she let me know about it     totally annoyed and claimed to be embarressed by it ??

suffice to say i never did send her flowers again


SX

You should have sent them to her home.

[John_A]

You should have sent them to her home.

I should have sent them, that was a mistake, it was a bit careless, but not something I should have my face rubbed in. I still thinkin the whole I dodged a bullet here. 

[Boethius]

My post was to southernX.

[Miquel Westano]

" The OP jumped in and asked opinions. "

NO. Someone asked "how is this going/how did it end?"

I answered.

Muhz had to jump in and make assumptions about how I treat women and why I am single, trying to hit below the belt with glee, because that's what he needs to do to feel better about himself.

This is how the thread started:

"Hello everyone, I'm really glad to have found this forum, and looking for some advice here that would be gratefully received."

That's all I meant.  I don't want to argue with you either.  I actually liked reading your story.  All I meant was when you get into a forum and post, lots of things are going to come your way.  Anyway I support your free speech too.

[Miquel Westano]

Miquel, why do you (and plenty of others) treat "liberal" as pejorative, when nobody writes "conservative" the same way?    What on earth is wrong with being "liberal?"

Actually many liberals do use the word conservative as an insult.  But whatever your take is on the issue, I think there is a lot wrong with being a liberal.  Someday we can have a nice thread on that, but not from me today.  It is too long a subject and needs a fresh start on a new day. 

Have a good one. 

[BillyB]

I'm sure there are a lot of good Russian women out there, and I'm glad to hear some of you have had success. But, I sorry, there are also good women everywhere, I am experiencing no dearth, and I feel no need to use economic leverage to secure (and keep) a wife. 

Society may claim you're the most sane of the members at this forum. You have no desire to exploit women using economic leverage. Regardless of the stereotype of the men in this endeavor, not all of us want to exploit women either.


One can win the heart of a quality RW without his wallet. If you got the means to expand your dating pool, don't give up on RW just because of one bad experience. Some here thought you should've visited her. Others know there are much better women out there. Below is a list of dating sites you should check out and let me know if the women you see there blow away what you're looking at at eharmony.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

[Boethius]

I take it without problem since I know that her English was very limited, she wanted to get me to understand her state of mind, and I got it, I have heard many more say the same thing, both women and men, you are expected to act as a MAN.. dont think its anyting wrong with it, but we western guys dont understand that, we are too soft.. we have to re-learn how to act as a man.

of course they do treat them as "royalty", up until the point they have landed her in bed, then the dynamic changes.

I read your posts to my FSUM.  His response was "Don't put noodles on my ears.  This is for foreign consumption.  These are countries where no one cares if you beat your wife, where the idea of being a man is to reek of tobacco and alcohol.  This is all for the consumption of foreigners.  No one there thinks like this.  It is mostly women telling foreign men what the women think men want to hear."

[whynotme]

So I should not carefully screen for compatibilty, jump on a plane like a fool to some frozen tundra in March, deposit $$$ in her account so she can get a tourist visa, have her come, marry a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag, have kids with her, then get divorced only to see her look for another husband in the states. Sounds like a GREAT plan.

I'm sincerely happy for the girl. She avoided the unenviable fate to live in the village with the church and stadium for American football as the only attraction, married with a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag who already planned all her life without any meeting in real. As for divorced Russian women - they have successfully overcome divorces with their "American princes" and hardly decide to repeat such experiment for a second time.

[Slumba]

I'm sincerely happy for the girl. She avoided the unenviable fate to live in the village with the church and stadium for American football as the only attraction, married with a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag who already planned all her life without any meeting in real. As for divorced Russian women - they have successfully overcome divorces with their "American princes" and hardly decide to repeat such experiment for a second time.

I am sure that is exactly what would have happened 

[cc3]

Try Stella Artois.

Belgian Bud...yuck! For a man's brewed beverage try 'Old Chub', if you are ever in the distribution area:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/oskar-blues-old-chub/11579/

RateBeer Stella Artois rating:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/stella-artois/1478/

(sorry for the beer hijack of the thread!)

[cc3]

I'm sincerely happy for the girl. She avoided the unenviable fate to live in the village with the church and stadium for American football as the only attraction, married with a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag who already planned all her life without any meeting in real. As for divorced Russian women - they have successfully overcome divorces with their "American princes" and hardly decide to repeat such experiment for a second time.

Oxford, home of the University of Mississippi, home of the great American author, William Faulkner, part-time home of best-selling author, John Grisham, and, this: "Oxford has been called the art center of the South. Famous artists include photorealist painter Glennray Tutor; figurative painter Jere Allen; expressionist painter Paula Temple; portraitist Jason Bouldin, sculptor William Beckwith; sculptor Rod Moorhead; and primitive artist Theora Hamblett (1895–1977). New Orleans artist John McCrady (1911–1968) studied art at Ole Miss." (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%2C_Mississippi)
This is your idea of a "village", with only a "church and stadium for American football"?
You are truly ignorant about America. Your Mongol-established Duchy of Muscovy is rapidly decaying. You shouldn't be mucking around to portray American university towns so falsely.

[Faux Pas]

Belgian Bud...yuck! For a man's brewed beverage try 'Old Chub', if you are ever in the distribution area:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/oskar-blues-old-chub/11579/

RateBeer Stella Artois rating:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/stella-artois/1478/

(sorry for the beer hijack of the thread!)

Stella is not bad especially if someone else is buying it. It's not considered good beer to my tastes but often it is the best alternative to domestic.

[jone]

I read your posts to my FSUM.  His response was "Don't put noodles on my ears.  This is for foreign consumption.  These are countries where no one cares if you beat your wife, where the idea of being a man is to reek of tobacco and alcohol.  This is all for the consumption of foreigners.  No one there thinks like this.  It is mostly women telling foreign men what the women think men want to hear."

No.  It is not for foreign consumption.  I have seen with my own eyes stumble bum drunks.  They are lying in the streets of Eastern European cities.  And just because a man doesn't drink and reek of alcohol or tobacco does not mean he is not a controlling SOB who beats his wife. 

We went through my fiancee's friends the other day to see how they fared with their men.  Of the ten or so we looked at, only two are happily married and one is to an American man my age.

Can an FSU man treat a woman right?  Absolutely.  But there are many who do not.  And much of it is tied to the idea that a man is the boss of the family.  For good or for bad.

[John_A]

I'm sincerely happy for the girl. She avoided the unenviable fate to live in the village with the church and stadium for American football as the only attraction, married with a controlling, emotionally manipulative nag who already planned all her life without any meeting in real. As for divorced Russian women - they have successfully overcome divorces with their "American princes" and hardly decide to repeat such experiment for a second time.

Well, that's not what happened. Granted Oxford is not Chicago, but I supported her goal of finishing her education in Russia (even though it would mean delaying being with her for 4 more months), promised to support her career goals and be supportive if she decided to further it and get a PhD here, agreed it would be good for her to have her own career and income, told her I would hold off buying a house so she could help pick it out, agreed she should be able to engage in all the activities that made her happy (like dancing), told her I would get her a car. . . I was positive and encouraging at all times. I respected dietary and religious considerations unconditionally, always gave her positive encouraging feedback and advice (when asked), was accepting of some superstitions she said were very important to her . . .etc. Not one negative, complaining, lewd or derogatory word came out of my mouth. Does that sound like I'm being a control freak?

There was a dynamic and rythm to communication and interaction that she was expecting that I was not aware of. Still, the emotional volatility and unpredictability were a bit much. She flew off the handle about something relatively minor, and, in my opinion, I think she blew it, not me.

[John_A]

Well, that's not what happened. Granted Oxford is not Chicago, but I supported her goal of finishing her education in Russia (even though it would mean delaying being with her for 4 more months), promised to support her career goals and be supportive if she decided to further it and get a PhD here, agreed it would be good for her to have her own career and income, told her I would hold off buying a house so she could help pick it out, agreed she should be able to engage in all the activities that made her happy (like dancing), told her I would get her a car. . . I was positive and encouraging at all times. I respected dietary and religious considerations unconditionally, always gave her positive encouraging feedback and advice (when asked), was accepting of some superstitions she said were very important to her . . .etc. Not one negative, complaining, lewd or derogatory word came out of my mouth. Does that sound like I'm being a control freak?

There was a dynamic and rythm to communication and interaction that she was expecting that I was not aware of. Still, the emotional volatility and unpredictability were a bit much. She flew off the handle about something miniscule, and, in my opinion, I think she blew it, not me.

[Boethius]

No.  It is not for foreign consumption.  I have seen with my own eyes stumble bum drunks.  They are lying in the streets of Eastern European cities.  And just because a man doesn't drink and reek of alcohol or tobacco does not mean he is not a controlling SOB who beats his wife.

We went through my fiancee's friends the other day to see how they fared with their men.  Of the ten or so we looked at, only two are happily married and one is to an American man my age.

Can an FSU man treat a woman right?  Absolutely.  But there are many who do not.  And much of it is tied to the idea that a man is the boss of the family.  For good or for bad.

You are arguing with yourself.      Or, you didn't understand my post.

[John_A]

Society may claim you're the most sane of the members at this forum. You have no desire to exploit women using economic leverage. Regardless of the stereotype of the men in this endeavor, not all of us want to exploit women either.


One can win the heart of a quality RW without his wallet. If you got the means to expand your dating pool, don't give up on RW just because of one bad experience. Some here thought you should've visited her. Others know there are much better women out there. Below is a list of dating sites you should check out and let me know if the women you see there blow away what you're looking at at eharmony.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

"Regardless of the stereotype of the men in this endeavor, not all of us want to exploit women either."

I'm sure a lot of people aren't; my snarky comment wasn't directed at you, but those that want to make assumptions about treating women like "dogs" or "that's why your single." If they don't like assumptions made about them maybe they shouldn't make them about others.