Why we stopped dating AW, volume 12

[Boethius]

No need for me to help prove your point. You did that yourself earlier in the thread 

No, you missed it entirely.


If, as some here allege, you need to go abroad to find women because AW are no longer "nurturing mothers and wives",  then you need to change the way society functions in order to accommodate mothers and wives.


If you don't wish to change the way society functions, then don't b##ch about having to pay child maintenance and alimony to the AW who has given up pay parity, due to childcare duties, when you divorce.

[Boethius]

Stats you quote are from what years, again?

They have stayed relatively stable over decades.

[mhr7]

Overall, 88% of the Parenting Plans were by agreement of the parties, 2% were decided after a contested hearing or trial, and 10% were by default. To examine whether the residential time of children was related to the type of decision, cases in which there were no risk factors for either parent were compared. For agreed cases, 64% of the mothers received the majority of time, and 22% of mothers and fathers received equal time (see Exhibit 6). For the few contested cases, 67% of mothers received the majority of time, but only 5% of mothers and fathers received equal time. And for cases resulting in default, 76% of mothers received the majority of time, and again only 5% of cases resulted in equal time between the parents. Results from the 2009-10 data are very similar to those from 2008-09 with one exception: in contested cases, the percentage of fathers receiving the majority of time increased from 15% in 2008-09 to 28% in 2009-10.

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/latest-u-s-custody-and-child-support-data/

[Boethius]

Here's another one for you -.

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/research/childsup/cspolicy/pdfs/2009-11/Task4A_CS_09-11_Final_revi2012.pdf


And this -

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-divorce-women-alimony-idUSBRE8490YW20120510

There's also a new study in Demography which funds joint custody is the new normal, but it is pay to read.



Finally, the most recent research is that joint custody is harmful to children.  I haven't delved into it much, as it's not something that affected my children.  I do know someone who lived in such an arrangement.  He shuttled back and forth between his parents' homes, and says now, as a 30 something adult, that he hated it, and it did affect him.

[Slumba]

They have stayed relatively stable over decades.

No.  The laws have changed and thus the stats have changed.

[alex330]

No, you missed it entirely.

If, as some here allege, you need to go abroad to find women because AW are no longer "nurturing mothers and wives",  then you need to change the way society functions in order to accommodate mothers and wives.

If you don't wish to change the way society functions, then don't b##ch about having to pay child maintenance and alimony to the AW who has given up pay parity, due to childcare duties, when you divorce.

Ok, probably because I do not agree with everything other posters have said on those two points.

[Boethius]

I know you don't.  But this is a thread that has focused to some extent, on those issues.

[Boethius]

No.  The laws have changed and thus the stats have changed.

To the extent they have changed, they have changed in a positive direction for fathers, not mothers.

[fathertime]

If you don't wish to change the way society functions, then don't b##ch about having to pay child maintenance and alimony to the AW who has given up pay parity, due to childcare duties, when you divorce.

Good point...some of these 'men' are the biggest whiners about women.

Finally, the most recent research is that joint custody is harmful to children.  I haven't delved into it much, as it's not something that affected my children.  I do know someone who lived in such an arrangement.  He shuttled back and forth between his parents' homes, and says now, as a 30 something adult, that he hated it, and it did affect him.

Hmmmm....I think joint custody is the best option when it is feasible....when a divorce occurs what do you feel would be a better option?


Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

Hmmmm....I think joint custody is the best option when it is feasible....when a divorce occurs what do you feel would be a better option?

I don't know.  I was never in that situation.  I came from an intact family, and raised one as well.


The person I know who hated his joint custody arrangement despised having to uproot every week.  I know of couples who keep their home, and each moves in and out weekly, while the children stay put, and one where they live in two separate sides of a duplex, with a joining door that the kids use as they wish.  I suppose that gives the children more control and "normality".

[fathertime]

I don't know.  I was never in that situation.  I came from an intact family, and raised one as well.


The person I know who hated his joint custody arrangement despised having to uproot every week.  I know of couples who keep their home, and each moves in and out weekly, while the children stay put, and one where they live in two separate sides of a duplex, with a joining door that the kids use as they wish.  I suppose that gives the children more control and "normality".

Of course it always depends on the individuals involved...The situation isn't ideal, but having two very involved parents is normally a great benefit, and joint custody usually helps to foster that, in my opinion.


Fathertime! 

[ML]

I know of couples who keep their home, and each moves in and out weekly, while the children stay put,

and one where they live in two separate sides of a duplex, with a joining door that the kids use as they wish.

These both would make great weekly TV shows.

In first situation . . . Week One has mother in the house with her new husband/boyfriend.
In Week Two father moves in with his new wife/girlfriend.
The father is really peeeeeed because there are very little groceries on hand, even though he left the pantry pretty well stocked two weeks ago.  The new wife/girlfriend is pretty peeeeed because the house is a mess, even as she left it well maintained two weeks ago.

Or . . . this second week couple use all the cosmetics and shaving items left by week one couple, and maybe the condoms and diaphragm also.

Over time, there would have to be established a 'dead time zone.'  i.e. One couple would have to vacate by 07:00 and the next couple could not arrive before 07:30.

Yes, I can see some really compatible scenarios happening here . . . not !

[Slumba]

This PDF though older (2004) makes some interesting points:

http://users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/Divorceweb.PDF

Bargaining in the Shadow of the Law:
Divorce Laws and Family Distress

"There are two mechanisms through which a change in divorce law regime may affect indicators of spousal well-being.  The first is by changing bargaining power and behavior within marriage. 

If the divorce regime affects the bargaining position of spouses in a way that changes intrafamily distribution then we expect to observe changes in spousal relations and wellbeing.  In other words, we posit that changing divorce regime may directly impact behavior within marriage.

The second mechanism is by changing selection into and out of marriage.  By changing the potential value of marriage, unilateral divorce may change who chooses to get married or stay married and thus match quality. "


"Perhaps surprisingly, men are as likely to be physically abused by their spouses as women are." pg 15

"Female suicide rates declined, but male suicide rates did not."

Note Appendices-1 : women murdered per million population per year (total) 32.8, vs men 92.6 . 

Measure of overall husband to wife abuse: 13.0
Measure of overall wife to husband abuse: 12.7

(My view: the change in divorce laws and related laws such as alimony and child support definitely change the "potential value" of marriage. Since it is a big subject and it takes time for attitudes to change, it is only now that the first rumblings of changes will be seen in the published stats.)

There is a lot more in the PDF but copying and pasting from it is time-consuming due to formatting.  Read the part that includes "exit threat" however on pages 4-6:

The exit threat bargaining models of Manser and Brown (1980) and McElroy and Horney (1981) emphasize external threat points specifically each party’s best option outside the marriage.  If this exit threat is binding, then changing opportunities outside the marriage will change the equilibrium distribution within the marriage.  If the internal threat is binding, then such changes do not affect outcomes.

To see how divorce laws affect the external threat point, note that prior to unilateral divorce, a partner wishing to dissolve the marriage could leave without their spouse’s consent.  However, in such a situation, a legal divorce is not granted and, as such, the right to remarry is forfeited.  Under unilateral divorce the value of the exit threat increases for the unsatisfied spouse, as the right to remarry is retained regardless of the position of one’s spouse.  Thus, the exit threat model predicts that changes in divorce regimes will have real effects.  If the divorce threat is sufficiently credible, it may directly affect intrafamily bargaining outcomes without the option ever being exercised.  That is, there may be profound changes not mediated by higher divorce rates.

Boiled down, this means that there is still a threat-point that can be used to bargain with, inside the marriage, that was not present before.

[Boethius]

So the choices are, stay in a bad marriage, or commit suicide?

[jone]

So the choices are, stay in a bad marriage, or commit suicide?

I've chose the latter in all six of my marriages.

[ML]

I've chose the latter in all six of my marriages.

But aren't you supposed to come back as a bug or some such after first death?

[2tallbill]

Many RW asked me why I don't look for an AW wife. This article hits on one reason.

I love the candor of Linda B., especially her last two sentences:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3741752/Truthfully-m-bit-bored-Women-struggling-loss-libido-candidly-confess-reasons-don-t-want-sex-men-insist-love.html

Everyone remembers their last AW girl anyone else with a story?

[2tallbill]

Unless there is a physical reason for a lack of sex, a woman's desire usually wanes because:


a)  she is unhappy in the relationship.  This will have a direct effect on a couple's sex life for most women;
b)  her husband is not a good lover.  Women aren't going to tell their men this.  But it will lead to a direct lack of sex;
c)  her husband needs viagra;
d) she is no longer attracted to her husband; or
e)  she is gay.


This has nothing to do with being American.  It's pretty universal, I suspect.

The article was written in the UK. UKW are every bit as feminist (if not worse) than AW.

[krimster2]

In Ukraine, men are the masters of the "dating game"
In America, it's the wimmin

and if you an American married to a Ukrainian, and you live in America
then a Ukrainian woman can "control" you, but she can't "dominate" you,
cuz yur in yur home country,and she needs yur home country expertise, and because of that, you have autonomy

because of their tight control of the pooty tang supply
American woman, will wanna control EVERYTHING about you, and constantly criticize you for everything, to create yur insecurity so they can dominate you so that you do what they want you to
and NOT what YOU want to do, only a BAD donkey will ignore his mistress

and then of course, there's "quality"
oh my, American wimmin are really unhappy if you compare them to Ukrainians

estrogen is a toxic  narcotic to American wimmin (and by extension - to you as well)
latin women, are the worst, they are warm nitroglycerine, just waitin to blow up in yur face