When the pool shrinks

[Trenchcoat]

You seem to get caught up in that.  Maybe try a bit of doing.

Instead of obsessing over far-off lands, go ask a girl out for a date. Any girl you don't have to pay more than dinner for.

If she says no, fine. Try with another.

When was the last time you asked a girl out?

Little point in the West. I need a girl who is 'serious' very few women are serious in the west and those that are serious are fat and/or ugly, past having children, had children and your second fiddle, or are women that don't interest me as they are no joy to be with, bad character traits or possibly just plain boring, etc. In the FSU particularly for a guy my age is the only place to be really.

[Boethius]

More BS. The average age of a first marriage for a woman in the UK is 30.5 years.

In a country of 67 million, you can’t find one single woman. Including among FSUW living there. Lie to yourself if you must, but you’re not fooling anyone here.

[BC]

Little point in the West. I need a girl who is 'serious' very few women are serious in the west and those that are serious are fat and/or ugly, past having children, had children and your second fiddle, or are women that don't interest me as they are no joy to be with, bad character traits or possibly just plain boring, etc. In the FSU particularly for a guy my age is the only place to be really.

How do you know all that if you don't even try?  Dates are dates, not marriage proposals. You ask a girl out, go have some fun and see what develops or not.  Wash, rinse repeat.  Works pretty much the same way in any country.

More BS.

Very likely.

[Trenchcoat]

How do you know all that if you don't even try?  Dates are dates, not marriage proposals. You ask a girl out, go have some fun and see what develops or not.  Wash, rinse repeat.  Works pretty much the same way in any country.

Very likely.

It can be very difficult for many guys to get a date in the UK including myself. Getting a date with undesirable women is likely easy enough, I've never wanted to do that as I couldn't stomach the thought of being with fat women or women I find unattractive I would be lying to myself amongst other things. As said women are not serious here about getting into a LTR, it's a if they dain to do so for them. I've been to four speed dating events when I was in my thirties. None of them I had any luck and I later found out not many guys do it's quite common for guys to get no ticks. That is an event that should work like a dream IF the dating world wasn't broken in the West.

I believe most of those girls at Speed Dating were single, weren't just there for entertainment as let's face it they want a partner also, at least in theory. So why weren't they more willing to date the guys? None of them are compelled to marry the guys they might date there. Nearly all the guys seemed reasonable enough guys to me, including myself, so why on earth didn't they date anyone?

To me the answer is obvious they didn't find a guy that was all they wanted there so couldn't be bothered to date any. If they feel they only want a guy but don't need one then they won't want to bother. Rarely if course does anyone match up to a tick box exercise.

For me in the UK Moldova or Ukraine is not a far off foreign land just a three hour flight away. There the dating world still functions and I can do much better so a no brainer for me really.

[BC]

Dating is just to go have fun and see if any chemistry develops or to go out again and just have fun if you wanna hang around a bit more together.

So since your speed dates in your 30s, other than one trip IIRC, you haven't even tried to date at all back home.  That explains everything.

You want your cake and eat it too, served on a silver platter.

Ain't gonna happen, Trench.

[ML]

When was the last time you asked a girl out?

My gal and I were out shopping at construction supply shop yesterday for the house we are renovating.  We were tired and hungry so she said we will eat at first place we see.

It was Long John Silvers.

Rediculous prices now.  Most restaurants have upped prices much more than needed for any inflation of labor and inputs.

The LJS cost us close to 20 dollars and we even shared a drink.

Previously it would have cost around 12 dollars.

Yesterday we were short of time also and used coupon at Subway for a 12 incher for $5.99.
That was just as filling as the LJS meals.

However, that Subway sandwich had regular price of $11.99.  I was very surprised that they were selling it for $5.99 with the coupon.

As clarifying comment, wife has the week off from university teaching for spring break.  That's why we are doing a lot of running around at constructions supply places, plus she is doing a ton of cleaning work at the second house.  Insists on scrubbing down all the walls and ceilings before we paint. Such a worker !!

We got done (by others) sanding down and  refinishing 1400 square feet of oak flooring.

Roofing guys were out yesterday to look and will probably start Monday to replace 3300 square feet of roofing plus replace two skylights, roof exhaust fans, etc.

I meant for this to just be a comment about asking a gal out on date . . . but got carried away with restaurant gouging remarks.

[Trenchcoat]

My gal and I were out shopping at construction supply shop yesterday for the house we are renovating.  We were tired and hungry so she said we will eat at first place we see.

It was Long John Silvers.

Rediculous prices now.  Most restaurants have upped prices much more than needed for any inflation of labor and inputs.

The LJS cost us close to 20 dollars and we even shared a drink.

Previously it would have cost around 12 dollars.

Yesterday we were short of time also and used coupon at Subway for a 12 incher for $5.99.
That was just as filling as the LJS meals.

However, that Subway sandwich had regular price of $11.99.  I was very surprised that they were selling it for $5.99 with the coupon.

As clarifying comment, wife has the week off from university teaching for spring break.  That's why we are doing a lot of running around at constructions supply places, plus she is doing a ton of cleaning work at the second house.  Insists on scrubbing down all the walls and ceilings before we paint. Such a worker !!

We got done (by others) sanding down and  refinishing 1400 square feet of oak flooring.

Roofing guys were out yesterday to look and will probably start Monday to replace 3300 square feet of roofing plus replace two skylights, roof exhaust fans, etc.

I meant for this to just be a comment about asking a gal out on date . . . but got carried away with restaurant gouging remarks.

Yeah wondered where you were going with it ML lol. Maybe get it shifted to your Four Years Wonders thread, would hate for such pertinent information to get lost here.

[Trenchcoat]

Dating is just to go have fun and see if any chemistry develops or to go out again and just have fun if you wanna hang around a bit more together.

So since your speed dates in your 30s, other than one trip IIRC, you haven't even tried to date at all back home.  That explains everything.

You want your cake and eat it too, served on a silver platter.

Ain't gonna happen, Trench.

BC, the change in women going after careers has changed everything. Back in the day (up to 1980s) girls would start looking at guys in High School and think ok that guy over there has a bit up top and looks like he could get a good School Leavers job maybe in a Bank as a Bank Clerk from which he may move his way up over time. So they would hold him in good esteem. They were mostly brought up back then to think about family and look for a good guy - one who could get work with reasonable looking work prospects. Back then if a guy had University in his sights then that was something really special as not many guys could get to that level. Such a guy could be quite attractive to girls only being off putting if he was really an oddball.

Now it feels like virtually everyone goes to uni, it's not special anymore. So many people as such are seen as intelligent so intelligence doesn't do it for women nearly as much as it ed to. Unless the guy is near Einstein like and not a complete social freak then there is little bonus to being intelligent for the guy so far as dating is concerned nowadays.

Add to that, that there are now way, way more women at uni than back in the day not just as a whole but also in proportion to men to previous decades of the 80s and before. So you don't think that massive seismic shift in society is going to have some noticeable effect on how women view certain types of men????

As Daveman correctly states that women have to respect men in order for the relationship to work. Those guys that go off and get good school leaver jobs or go to Uni they no longer respect them for what they have, it's widespread that so many people can get that now, almost anyone can go to uni AND to top it all they are at uni or have been and are competing against them in the workplace for the good jobs.

So what do women respect in men some guys/girls are clearly dating that's for sure. If we take away intelligence then we are left with those that are good looking, good social skills, wealthy/good income, possibly good physique, etc. So women are respecting other virtues. Many guys of course don't have those virtues so that leaves many women today dissatisfied and many that would rather not date guys, cue falling birth rates and rising single people in society.

We can see from guys like Krim that being a wealthy guy works among anything else he does. He can turn up as a fairly old guy anyway and young pretty enough girls still fall for him. We can't all be vastly wealthy if course it's just how capitalism works. Some guys who are wealthy hide it as they don't want a girl who they see is only with them for their wealth and forgo dating women.

So the bar is set way high for many guys these days and women won't go near a guy who hasn't passed a certain threshold. There are women that will but those women are usually real turn offs to such guys. Some guys will date down as they would rather accept just about anything in desperation to being lonely single, I understand that but I just can't live a life that is a lie. She doesn't have to be a top model but she does have to be someone I feel that I want to be with.

So yeah some do go out and date for fun and see how each other are like. I think that us more common in the US and more common among the young teen years. Still though women tend to have a base line criteria for even that. It may all just be seen as a fun date situation but the guy has to be seen as datable in her eyes and that usually means fairly decent socially or the guy dropping his standards and be wiling to date just any old chick.

[Trenchcoat]

I mean what I'm saying is back in the day nearly all straight guys had a fair crack at it, now many don't. That's the price of all this uni/careers stuff, it's not all just a one way positive making a societal change like that it affects many areas and done in a very negative way for certain people. It's not just the guts that lose out but the women also, they can't find guys that they are satisfied being with. Remember it's a roughly one man to one female ratio in the west so if there are single guys around there are single women also even if they busy themselves with study & careers. I personally think a lot of cases of obesity in women are down to this dynamic.  Junk food has existed for a long time, it was around in the 70s and before. It was not until the late nineties/millennium that women started to get noticeably fatter, not all but many women. My personal view is that many women that saw that they couldn't get a man that would anyway near satisfy them or if they did stayed in a relationship they weren't secretly happy with started over eating/eating badly both for comfort and for filing that void of dissatisfaction. Many probably see no reason to look good for someone they at heart don't really want to be with.

So women wanting to have it all, to have careers comes with a cost. The west is getting a more and more miserable place because if it. Many people living dire lives living lonely sometimes in squalid conditions. I fortunately am not the worst off but my dating life/relationship situation could of course be better. I am just grateful that for the time being at least my life is not so bad in all ways as for some out there it is.

[krimster2]

inflation?
wait until you start looking at how your taxes change after you retire
if you collect a high social security payment, you really aren't allowed to have any "legal" income from other sources before they start taxing your social security...

the way around this is to have unreported rental incomes
or overseas income that you have access to and make small transfers to the usa like through a debit card

new tax laws mean I can't legally sell gold or jewelry I make without considering it as income
so selling my jewelry as family heirlooms at auction ain't gonna work any more
thanks Biden

I suspect the USA will have to reverse course, and start issuing larger denomination notes
despite their appeal to the illegal drug industry (which is switching to bitcoin BTW)
when I was a kid, my uncles did bizness in cash, crisp stacks of series 1934 Federal Reserve 500 dollar bills
with McKinley's picture on it, beautful money it was, not the crap we use now

[Trenchcoat]

Are people even reading this thread before posting

[krimster2]

trench
get over your resentment over being on the bottom
plenty of guys have figured out how to climb out of the hole they found themselves in
why havn't you?  what's stopping you?

conditions change, some are favorable and some are not
don't matter
whatever the conditions
you adapt to them

it is better to plan than to react

big changes are comin in the world
it's gonna steamroll right over most of ya

[Trenchcoat]

wait until you start looking at how your taxes change after you retire
if you collect a high social security payment, you really aren't allowed to have any "legal" income from other sources before they start taxing your social security...

the way around this is to have unreported rental incomes
or overseas income that you have access to and make small transfers to the usa like through a debit card

new tax laws mean I can't legally sell gold or jewelry I make without considering it as income
so selling my jewelry as family heirlooms at auction ain't gonna work any more
thanks Biden

I suspect the USA will have to reverse course, and start issuing larger denomination notes
despite their appeal to the illegal drug industry (which is switching to bitcoin BTW)
when I was a kid, my uncles did bizness in cash, crisp series 1934 500 dollar bills
with McKinley's picture on it, beautful money it was, not the crap we use now

Well for what it's worth I've had similar in mind for the UK. Here the Landlord industry is now f*cked for most people who would wish to enter, swamped with regulation, mortgage relief removed, etc, etc. Many Landlords have been selling up but it's still possible to make reasonably easy money renting out rooms in your 'official home' to Lodgers as opposed to assured Tenants. That comes with far less regulation and a £7500 rent allowance before tax, however the personal income of £12500 can be added to that if not using that from employment income. One Landlord online in the UK said a few years back that generally the tax man won't generally know if income is coming in through property moreso a single house so my guess is if rental income went slightly over the allowance here & there in the UK at least it probably wouldn't be a big issue. More than one house could be chancing it but so long as it looks like there is a decent amount of tax allowance it is being set off against I don't reckon the tax man here likely scrutinizes it too much. Go way overboard and get caught and it so not been seen as a very slight oversight then they're likely to take anyone doing such to the cleaners I reckon.

The income from abroad idea I've considered also, like you say Krim is not a bad idea. Have a place abroad where rooms are rented out or Airbnb and put the income into a bank account in that country then either use that money while there or abroad in another country or move in small amounts into home country as needed. Again I don't think the tax man really scrutinizes such small amounts as here in the UK at least they just don't have the time to check into everyone's bank account and ask what this or that small amount of ongoings is, only larger amounts of a considerable sum of many thousands might be scrutinized I reckon. Just my thoughts on it all for the sake of theory of course.

[Trenchcoat]

trench
get over your resentment over being on the bottom
plenty of guys have figured out how to climb out of the hole they found themselves in
why havn't you?  what's stopping you?

conditions change, some are favorable and some are not
don't matter
whatever the conditions
you adapt to them

it is better to plan than to react

big changes are comin in the world
it's gonna steamroll right over most of ya

Not exactly on the bottom even dating wise. Dating wise I just choose not to date girls at the bottom. Economically getting your own house in the UK is seen as an accomplishment these days, many end up in the rental trap both singles and couples. So having my own house all paid up for isn't doing bad really in some ways.

[Daveman]

There's an old slavic proverb i just made up... "You gotta kissa hundred lyagushki to get a kissa back."

[krimster2]

hey paisano, thassa good you gotta de house

now figure out a business you can do at home to getcha some more paper with picture of King Charles (ewww on it)  how long is Elizabeth currency gonna be in circulation?
if you need capital borrow against house - but ya gotta generate a cash flow to pay off the loan
but after paid off - extra cash flow is yours
this how ya climb up me bruv
step-by-agonizing-step
unless you're smart and take the elevator

[BC]

BC, the change in women going after careers has changed everything. Back in the day (up to 1980s) girls would start looking at guys in High School and think ok that guy over there has a bit up top and looks like he could get a good School Leavers job maybe in a Bank as a Bank Clerk from which he may move his way up over time. So they would hold him in good esteem. They were mostly brought up back then to think about family and look for a good guy - one who could get work with reasonable looking work prospects. Back then if a guy had University in his sights then that was something really special as not many guys could get to that level. Such a guy could be quite attractive to girls only being off putting if he was really an oddball.

Now it feels like virtually everyone goes to uni, it's not special anymore. So many people as such are seen as intelligent so intelligence doesn't do it for women nearly as much as it ed to. Unless the guy is near Einstein like and not a complete social freak then there is little bonus to being intelligent for the guy so far as dating is concerned nowadays.

Add to that, that there are now way, way more women at uni than back in the day not just as a whole but also in proportion to men to previous decades of the 80s and before. So you don't think that massive seismic shift in society is going to have some noticeable effect on how women view certain types of men????

As Daveman correctly states that women have to respect men in order for the relationship to work. Those guys that go off and get good school leaver jobs or go to Uni they no longer respect them for what they have, it's widespread that so many people can get that now, almost anyone can go to uni AND to top it all they are at uni or have been and are competing against them in the workplace for the good jobs.

So what do women respect in men some guys/girls are clearly dating that's for sure. If we take away intelligence then we are left with those that are good looking, good social skills, wealthy/good income, possibly good physique, etc. So women are respecting other virtues. Many guys of course don't have those virtues so that leaves many women today dissatisfied and many that would rather not date guys, cue falling birth rates and rising single people in society.

We can see from guys like Krim that being a wealthy guy works among anything else he does. He can turn up as a fairly old guy anyway and young pretty enough girls still fall for him. We can't all be vastly wealthy if course it's just how capitalism works. Some guys who are wealthy hide it as they don't want a girl who they see is only with them for their wealth and forgo dating women.

So the bar is set way high for many guys these days and women won't go near a guy who hasn't passed a certain threshold. There are women that will but those women are usually real turn offs to such guys. Some guys will date down as they would rather accept just about anything in desperation to being lonely single, I understand that but I just can't live a life that is a lie. She doesn't have to be a top model but she does have to be someone I feel that I want to be with.

So yeah some do go out and date for fun and see how each other are like. I think that us more common in the US and more common among the young teen years. Still though women tend to have a base line criteria for even that. It may all just be seen as a fun date situation but the guy has to be seen as datable in her eyes and that usually means fairly decent socially or the guy dropping his standards and be wiling to date just any old chick.

Trench, all this is irrelevant if you aren't even trying at home. You have it all figured out, except yourself.  The only advantage you might have in another country is an arranged first date.  The rest remains exactly the same.  Women in other countries are not standing around in the arrival hall of the airport fighting over every foreign man that gets off the plane.  Moldova, Ukraine, or wherever is not like going to the shelter to pick out a dog or cat. Without any experience dating or even being around women, I get the feeling you are just setting yourself up to get caught in a honey trap.

9. Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference
is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

10. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2.msg2#msg2

[Trenchcoat]

hey paisano, thassa good you gotta de house

now figure out a business you can do at home to getcha some more paper with picture of King Charles (ewww on it)  how long is Elizabeth currency gonna be in circulation?
if you need capital borrow against house - but ya gotta generate a cash flow to pay off the loan
but after paid off - extra cash flow is yours
this how ya climb up me bruv
step-by-agonizing-step
unless you're smart and take the elevator

Agonising steps it may have to be Krim but hopefully I'll get there, better to get there than not I guess. I know wealth doesn't ensure a good life but it may avert a bad one. The Corfu villa idea is one I thought about borrowing capital. With a bit of luck if I can Airbnb it I can get some more income that way. If a bit but not too much tarting up is needed on it then that may help it sell on for a decent price should all not work out. I've got an idea for a business but it's not necessarily a sure thing to make profit, I think it could but with many businesses not everything is a sure thing. The outlay isn't huge so I may give that a go also.

The elevator I have a couple of things in play but they are a long shot and far from certain any chance of coming good, more of a gamble really.

I could likely get the place in Corfu on a bank loan so then no need to go through the mortgage process and have it set against the value of my house. The repayments would be higher but over a shorter period (10 years as opposed to 20, 25 or 30) but should be more than doable with the income I'll have coming in.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, all this is irrelevant if you aren't even trying at home. You have it all figured out, except yourself.  The only advantage you might have in another country is an arranged first date.  The rest remains exactly the same.  Women in other countries are not standing around in the arrival hall of the airport fighting over every foreign man that gets off the plane.  Moldova, Ukraine, or wherever is not like going to the shelter to pick out a dog or cat. Without any experience dating or even being around women, I get the feeling you are just setting yourself up to get caught in a honey trap.

9. Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference
is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

10. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2.msg2#msg2

Going out on a date is pretty straight forward. Go out, do something entertaining and try and have a good time. A lot of that can depend on how well you get on with the person you are with and how into you she is as well as random stuff. Either it will be a goer or it won't the way I see it.

[Grumpy]

10. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2.msg2#msg2

Mail-order brides may be found at this link:

http://dollforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=210

[krimster2]

trench
you should listen to this advice
male/female relationships are harder to understand than your taxes
books ain't gonna help ya
you need first hand experience to get that kinda knowledge
you gotta do your apprenticeship
I lived with lots of women and have huge experience on managing them

but getting a degree in history (where the really BIG MONEY is NOT AT) and living in your home town, were not the best choices, now were they?
cuz as a result of just those choices right there guaranteed you're gonna get less female attention than Bee Farmer

when I worked as an electrical engineer in cambridge as a "gasterbeither"
I could dress "country" bring some good hash I brought in from Amsterdam, and be the center of attention at parties in cambridge or oxford...
and back then, I couldn't even drive a car there, had to take buses and taxis and still had English girls wantin to show me their junk...

In Uzbekistan a variation of this is "going commando" when they come to your apartment, i.e. not wear underware
then they sit provacatively and briefly flash you - just to guage your reaction
ain't none of you goobers ready for that
but this is a very handy time to have a fireplace and an al paca rug

[Daveman]

...
What do women respect now...?

To begin with: Making her uncontrollably feel something (besides nausea that is  ). Causing her. She won't respect you or have any interest unless she feels it. Just go up to any woman and fire up a conversation.. Then disagree with everything she says.. Not in a mean or argumentative way, but playfully argumentative. Watch her attraction level toward you rise. Try it..  You'll see exactly what  I'm talking about and that will be a potential eureka moment. 


 

[Bee Farmer]

Your notion that giving women options in the workforce somehow results in less available women is, frankly, ridiculous, and is more about your own insecurities than any reality. 

Actually, the data is quite clear about it, especially among college educated women.  It's not that the women are not "available" so much as the pool of men they are willing to date is smaller.  So from a single man's point of view, those women are not available.

For instance, women outnumber men in colleges.  Yet as a general rule the college educated women all want to marry college educated guys.  There's not enough college educated guys for all the girls to get married.  So there are single girls...but they are unwilling to date "beneath" them.

Women stil earn 3/4 of what men do,

   

More BS.  Women are often paid more than men for doing the same job when the experience is comparable.

The data gets screwed when men work high risk jobs (that women are unwilling to do) that pay more, or women take several years off to have kids and then re-enter the workforce. 

Were teaching and nursing not "careers"?

It depends.  Teaching and nursing can be just a job, and not a career.

Women in the FSU open businesses at greater rates than do men.  There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of women with careers comparable to women in the West. 

Is it a career, or is it just a job to them?  There is a difference.

[Bee Farmer]

In a country of 67 million, you can’t find one single woman. Including among FSUW living there. Lie to yourself if you must, but you’re not fooling anyone here.

Just because a girl is single doesn't mean she is relationship material.

I can attest to the difficulty of finding local single women in my age range that I consider to be relationship material.  I go to a farmers market every Saturday in the summer in a city with over a million people in the metro area.  Usually about 2500 people come through every week.  These are health conscious people, and it is very rare for me to see a girl that I would take a second look at.

[Bee Farmer]

You seem to get caught up in that.  Maybe try a bit of doing.

Instead of obsessing over far-off lands, go ask a girl out for a date. Any girl you don't have to pay more than dinner for.

If she says no, fine. Try with another.

When was the last time you asked a girl out?

Just out of curiosity, how is a guy supposed to find a girl that is relationship material to go out with?

How do you know all that if you don't even try?  Dates are dates, not marriage proposals. You ask a girl out, go have some fun and see what develops or not.  Wash, rinse repeat.  Works pretty much the same way in any country.

Complete BS.  Respectable men NEVER do that.

I have never known a single guy who was looking for a serious relationship who asked girls out to go have fun and see what develops.
Every single guy I know who asks girls out, to go have some fun and see what develops were low class scumbags who were only looking for sex.  They were NEVER looking for a serious relationship. 
If the guys do end up in a "relationship" it's hard to describe it as anything more than a one night stand that happens every night with the same girl - if they do get married, plan on a divorce in the future.

My parents taught me that people should never go out with someone they know they would be unwilling to marry.  If you know they are someone you would be unwilling to marry, then don't even waste your time going out with them.

In America, about 80% of women are overweight, obese, or severely obese.  Personally, I don't consider that to be relationship material.
Divorced - not relationship material.
Kids - once again, not relationship material.
Tattoos - not relationship material.  (and surveys range from 33%-59% of women reporting having a tattoo.)
27% of women in America have a mental illness.  (and you can bet more single women are crazy than married.)

That's not even getting into dealbreakers like alcohol or drug use.  The number of prior sexual partners has enormous impact on the likelihood of a marriage working out.  How good are they at managing money?  (A girl may be a lot of fun who spends money like water, but you don't want to marry her.)

It's not about having fun.  It's about finding a life partner.