Financial issues.

[Bruno]

Here, we have some crazy law... called positive discrimination... state and industry are obligate to have a worker population who represent the real belgium population... so, some place are reserved for foreign... industry are not really obligate but if they use a foreign, they receive a tax reduction for these worker around 30%... several Belgium citizen without work are really not happy from these law...

Very interesting post Leslie... it seem that i have forget some detail in my previous post... and i see that in EU, each country have his own rule... for a real unite europe, the way will be very long...

[TheArrow]

One more time - Thank you all, guys. Though I am not going to change my place of living - this is a very good information for ALL women(true information about any country - this is written in my profile here).

Many women post their profiles at dating sites but they have no clear idea about what "living abroad" means, they just trying to escape thinking if they live abroad ALL their problems will be solved by WIZARDS (their husbands). And I must say some agencies tell them the same - they will have "Santa-Barbara" life living abroad.

So your information, probably, make them think good before posting profiles or listening to any angecy clerks.

Natalya:)

 

[BC]

Good reference Dan..

One note..

when Europeans say "I make 3000", It's usually 3000 after taxes..

When Europeans say "I own a house" it usually means free and clear..

Counting on 'chickens before they hatch' is bad business..

Anyone that has debt owes someone more than he can afford to pay at the moment.. loose a job.. loose everything.

I live in an economically disadvantaged area, but I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people here that own their homes free and clear is much higher than in the US..  

[Bruno]

One more time - Thank you all, guys. Though I am not going to change my place of living - this is a very good information for ALL women(true information about any country - this is written in my profile here).

Many women post their profiles at dating sites but they have no clear idea about what "living abroad" means, they just trying to escape thinking if they live abroad ALL their problems will be solved by WIZARDS (their husbands). And I must say some agencies tell them the same - they will have "Santa-Barbara" life living abroad.

So your information, probably, make them think good before posting profiles or listening to any angecy clerks.

Natalya:)

 

I think that this will be true for each marriage with foreign... on the financial vieuw, each country have his + and his - ... when i was in russia, i have find energy very cheap... but by us, it is very expensive... for the food, it is very expensive in russian and enough cheap here... of course for make my comparaison, i imagine myself living in russia with the income of russian worker and living in Belgium with the income of belgium worker... ecology by example is a european choice... it is a good choice but the price of product difficult to recycle are high... but i have appreciate the low price in russia for musea, cultural event, opera, circus, free biblioteek... by us, the bill can become high...

All these difference make the adaptation of the woman very difficult... for all this, the delay of one year from previous post is maybe a little short...

 

[BC]

So your information, probably, make them think good before posting profiles or listening to any angecy clerks.

Natalya:)

Natalya,
Yes think many times... It really is all relative.. In the end it's the Quality of Life that really counts. There is really no big advantage sometimes.. A Mercedes gets from point A to B a little faster and with more comfort, but Volga also gets from A to B with much less cost which leaves more money to enjoy with others at point B.

In many ways real Quality of Life in RU is really not that bad. Essentials seem to be available and people seem to have a lot of fun with each other. What you 'own' is not that important.. Its the interaction with others that make life rewarding.

You likely know and often enjoy the company of your neighbors, many here have never even introduced themselves to their neighbors.

[TigerPaws]

I posted this on another thread some time ago but the figured are still valid for the more metro areas of California.

 

Looking through the newspapers a good mid range new car is 30k and a fair used car is 15 to 18k unless you buy a rollerskate to drive (ever heard of the Yugo?). As for the driving we drive over 25,000 miles (40,233km) a year between 3 cars and that dose not include the motorhome (RV) or rental cars, when we fly (our own airplane) someplace. America is simply a huge country compaired to Europe, where we live now in southwest Florida it is 5 miles (8km) one way the the nearest store let alone any additional shopping. 

 The cost of living in America can be very expensive depending on where you live, in California the average home is now $500,000.00 dollars (honestly), add it up yourself:

Mortguage payment                               $2,500.00 per month

House insurance                                          300.00 per month

Car payment (1)                                            325.00 per month  

Car insurance                                                200.00 per month

Utilities gas & electric                                   250.00 per month

Utilities water, sewer & garbage                     75.00 per month

Health insurance (varies but average)          250.00 per month

Telephone including cell phone                      80.00 per month

Food (for 1)                                                     300.00 per month

Gas for car (varies)                                         450.00 per month

Cable or Sat TV                                                85.00 per month

Misc. expenses                                               250.00 per month

Property taxes                                                 250.00 per month

Total                                      $5,315.00 per month in expenses

Now add in about 33% to $5,315.00 for various State, Federal and Local Income Taxes taken out of your pay before you receive your pay check and your monthly income is about $7,070.00 (rounded off) or damn near $85,000.00 per year.

 I will agree that if you live in a less expensive part of the country a man can do fairly well for himself on 55 to 60k per year and support a RW in a comfortable lifestyle. What most AM do not undertand is wht the expectations of their RW will be in the terms of how much time off of work they have. I know many men who work 55 to 60 plus hours a week in addition to hour plus commute times, this puts a great deal of strain on a relationship when the RW is totally dependent on the AM.

 

[TheArrow]

You likely know and often enjoy the company of your neighbors, many here have never even introduced themselves to their neighbors.

You are right. I have very good neighbours. A small example - if I feel bad, my neighbour can stay all night long near me. And she will also ask one of her daughters to walk with my dog. Sometimes, neighbours are more close people than relatives here. One of my friends was in Moscow (he is from UK) and we were talking about that. And he said that such connection with neighbours in UK was possible 5 yeras ago. But now... alas  Maybe coz of this Russians are more soulfull than other nationalities.... Maybe....

[TheArrow]

I know many men who work 55 to 60 plus hours a week in addition to hour plus commute times, this puts a great deal of strain on a relationship when the RW is totally dependent on the AM.

 

Sorry for my question, but........Is your wife totally dependent on you?

[BC]

Tiger

You hit the nail on the head..

time is money.. and 'disposable time' to enjoy with the family can be quite 'expensive' if you are fighting to make ends meet.

sad but true.. a RW is a luxury many simply cannot afford in terms of time.

[BC]

Jeez Natalya.. It's midnight here and 2am there so..... GOODNIGHT!!

[TheArrow]

Jeez Natalya.. It's midnight here and 2am there so..... GOODNIGHT!!

Good night. Sleep tight. God bless you until.... the bugs undress you (old English saying, by the way)

[TigerPaws]

Sorry for my question, but........Is your wife totally dependent on you?

Arrow,

 For the first year or so yes, although I always made sure she had at least several hundred dollars in her purse at any given time and made sure she never had to ask me for money, what she did with the funds she had was up to her, I never asked. Then over the next year my wife learned how to deal with our finances which is very complex, I saw to it that she had her own debit card and credit card as well as how to record her purchases for our records.

 Now if you mean dose my wife work or have a desire to work, the answer is n,o so in that she is dependent on me except she has access to whatever joint funds are available at the time.

[OhioGuyRob]

Lol.... this guy is too broke to do anything... what was the question again??

[OhioGuyRob]

I agree that some of his numbers are a bit high but not enough to make much of a difference.  I dont think you can really do this on a 40k pre tax income.  Just my view point (which only matters to me)

[wxman]

I agree that making less that 40K pre tax would make this process quite hard to do. Of course if this person has a house that is paid off with no debts, etc, then they probably could live ok off of 3k a month. Not lavish, but still would be able to live comfortably.

[OhioGuyRob]

Are there tax advantages to carrying a mortage in your country?  In the US you are rewarded with a tax write off for the interest you pay towards a loan.   With rates as low as they are right now, its cheap money.  Additionally, Americans are FAR more transient than in most european countries.  It is fairly common for Americans to move roughly every 7-10 years.

[MandM]

Les,

Looks like they toughened the rules a lot since I came here in 2000! 

Does Natasha have indefinite leave to remain in the UK? After she obtains that she no longer has to pay high University fees for foreign students, does she? I do feel for her, its hard enough  for any musicians to make any money here, never mind immigrants! Mark is musician, and had been in a band for years, but now he's got a 'proper job' and does music as a hobby. He is a beautiful song writer, plays guitar and piano and has a good voice. They have recorded a song with Captain Sensible last week, but it's just for fun - to play at our friend's wedding next weekend!

[MandM]

To be honest, when I first came to the UK I was not prepared at all that life here is so expensive. I come from a comfortably well off family and used to be able to afford nearly everything in Russia. Now I have to stand on my own two feet (damn! :X) and find money for bills and everything else. We Russians are crap at saving. Nobody told me before that I had to 'spend half, save half'! I used to spend everything I had in my purse every time I went shopping. If you do it here, then you basically f****d , because if you don't pay the bills, its only a matter of weeks before your letter box get flooded with threatening letters demanding money, money, money and Bailiffs will knock on your door.  Only two things can save you then: a payday or your bank increasing your overdraft limit....again! I still can't learn to save and Mark (though he is not Russian!) is just as bad.

[BC]

M&M,

Yes those damn bills and taxes every time I open the mailbox RU becomes more and more appealing!

Standing in line at the bank one day I overheard the woman in front of me talking to the teller in a loud voice (not RW).. when advised that there was no more money in her account said: "That's impossible!.. I still have checks!"

Banks, checks, mortgage, equity, insurance, overdraft, card-o-mania, loans etc etc are really quite confusing concepts when you think about it. In the end though it's all an expensive juggling act.  That RU purse of yours was probably a lot better. With our 'credit based purse' you always end up putting in more than you take out.

[Leslie]

Hi Elle,

 

Natasha will become a permanent resident in December.  £500 for that visa now…

 

She has not worked since February when we went to Egypt on holiday.  She is 8 months  pregnant.  So big she can't even walk around Tesco to do the shopping.  Life is very uncomfortable now - that's why she is grumpy!

 

Music will always be part of her life.  She spends a couple of hours each day practising though there is no performance to prepare for.  I don't think it is a viable option for earning a living though.  Still there is no economic need for that. 

 

UK is a very expensive place to live.  Just paid the council tax bill.  Very little change from £2000.  When Natasha first came her she could not believe the prices.  She would go shopping and refuse to buy anything.  Strawberries are 80 Hrivna a kilo!!  The cost of living here is one of the main pressures for moving to Ukraine.  I just have to figure out a way of earning a living there!

 

 

[MandM]

Les,

Wow, only few weeks left. You must be excited! I hope it all goes well!

Don't even get me started on the bloody council tax! My parents are so proud telling everyone back home how much I'm earning here and they all think that we must be living in luxury! They just don't realize what the prices are like over here.

Are you serious about moving to Ukraine? Can you speak the language? I guess you could open a shop there. 'Fashion from England' or something. You could sell tweed, clothes from Primark (because they are so cheap), English tea, smoking pipes and bacon!

[Seekandfind]

It my be like that in Italy, but in the Scandinavian Countries, the lifestyles and debt are just like in the good old US of A. Very few people actually OWN there homes. All u need is a 10 procent downpayment, the rest is a 30 year loan. Vat in Denmark as an example is 25% ON EVERYTHING!!! And when people here say what the make, it is BEFORE taxes, wich is the highest in the world.

I make six figures, but after taxes I don´t. Try paying 68% procent on  the last earned dollar. Now that REALLY hurts.

I am probably what is a bit above middle class when it comes to income here, but expect my income to increase in the future, or else there is no way I would be able to support another person, without having to count each penny.

[Seekandfind]

sorry, forgot to quote...

[BC]

Seekandfind,

It's all relative.. before the euro I used to make millions per week (in lire)

I think the big difference is that maybe you live in a more mobile society like the USA (just guessing) where homes are not passed down generation to generation or money saved under the mattresses and the family budget kept near mama's heart.

Here families still stick together, work, live and build together much like in RU. Doesn't take much to make a big pot of food or build a starter home for newlyweds when everyone chips in.. the rest is saved away. The costs of individualism ad a mobile society are quite high.

Consumer credit is on the rise though so it may not be the same 10 years down the line.

Income taxes are not that high (between 15 and 45% depending on income level) but VAT is 20% here. Decent medical care is basically free (only small deductible for specialist care and hospital stays if your income is high enough to afford it).

[Seekandfind]

Thanks for explaining that BC, sunds nice to me.