Dreams of happiness shatter at dawn

[Misha]

Gaubaub,

I have no authority.  Misconceptions bother me, however.  I am challenging your blanket statement about Moscow women.  Nothing else.  You are not the only man carrying such a misconception. 

I asked if you dated any Moscow women?  You did not answer.  You still have not answered.

If you have some experience with Moscow women, let us start another thread and compare provincial women with Moscow women.  I have met many Moscow women and many provincial women.  In my opinion, they are equal.

This site is built upon misconceptions :-) Misconceptions of Russian women, misconceptions of American women, misconceptions of American men, etc....

Yes, I dated women from Moscow, and I even married a ?????????. You have to understand that Moscovites might as well be on a different planet as the rest of Russia. There is more money in Moscow and native Muscovites who do not have to worry about paying for rent or paying a mortgage can live a lifestyle that would be the envy of many American women. As such, they will have expectations when marrying and this does not matter if they marry a Russian or if they marry a foreigner. If a woman falls in love with you and truly lives with you, then she will be happy to live with you in a trailer park. However, if she marries for reasons other than love and if she is used to a certain lifestyle, she will expect a lifestyle that is no worse than she had back home.

This is the rationale behind my comment: I personally cannot afford to pay for the lifestyle that many women in Moscow are used to and a lifestyle that is enjoyed my some of the unmarried women on this site: numerous trips to Europe, resorts, etc... To summarize, you should be aware of a woman's expectations following marriage (and this is true of any woman whether Russian, American, Martian...) and you have to understand what kind of lifestyle she was living when she was not married. The same is also true for men: the lifestyle they had before marriage will likely remain the lifestyle they want with their wife after they say I do.

[Jazzyclassy]

Oh I have to defend Moscow girls . They are friendly and cuddly and only some percentage of them are like you describe gaubaub. Cos well it is a myth of many people not only from the villages but from the other countries that Moscovites get everything so easy and have the best jobs and the best apartments and cars, it is not true, many of us live from hand to mouth and more over many girls are very hard working and achieved things themselves, got highly paid job and became independent.

My sister for example she has masters in engineering she is 28 y.o. earns a good salary cos she also knows English fluents , french a little bit and German little little bit, so she has got a nice position only thank to her great knowledge and communicating skills. Can not tell for sure how much she earn but not less than 2 000$ but the only place  like the other country she traveled was Turkey with her hubby that's it!!!!

So not every successful beautiful smart girl has such a glamorous way of life

I will quickly post the pic of my sister,  so the ones who are hanging around in  this thread can see her in like 5 mins will take the pic away

[William3rd]

And she is married to one of those terrible Russian men that all the women are trying to get away from? Hmmm- maybe that myth needs some rethinking. . . .

[Jazzyclassy]

yeah she is married to a russian man , well they have a child and are similar in someways , I do not know they are happy:)

[Bruno]

And if you want to WOVO, have a backup plan.

Sorry to reply late to these topic... i have always some section not read from a few month ago...

Simoni, can you explain me what will be the difference with a "backup plan" in these case... this have happen on the last day of the trip, when he was ready to take the plane back home...

In these special case, a reserve plan will have change nothing... reserve plan is perfect when what some call alchimy don't work during the stay... no at the last few hours of the stay...

[SANDRO43]

yeah she is married to a russian man , well they have a child and are similar in someways , I do not know they are happy

She's your sister, and you don't know if she's happily married ? What's that, another typical Muscovite trait  ?

[groovlstk]

As such, they will have expectations when marrying and this does not matter if they marry a Russian or if they marry a foreigner. If a woman falls in love with you and truly lives with you, then she will be happy to live with you in a trailer park. However, if she marries for reasons other than love and if she is used to a certain lifestyle, she will expect a lifestyle that is no worse than she had back home.

There's a flip side to this coin, one that has been debated quite often here.

To each his own, but I'll take my chances with a woman who has a decent standard of living (like Lily, Jazzy, or Blues Fairy) rather than someone who lives in poverty and thus has many more reasons to marry a Westerner. You wrote about women who marry for reasons "other than love," it seems to me a woman living in difficult circumstances is much more likely to take this path than one who has enough discretionary income to afford an annual vacation abroad.

FWIW, I'm married to a Moscow woman, our lifestyle is pretty similar to what she had in Moscow, the only difference is we eat out more often. Oh, and she owns her own apartment in Moscow while I rent, so technically she probably has a higher net worth than I do  When we were initially getting to know each other I took a lot of comfort in knowing that she wasn't dating me simply for an upgrade in her lifestyle.

The poor woman from a province may not expect much from you while you're courting, but once she arrives in the US and sees her girlfriends spending a week or two in Cancun, what's to keep her from upgrading husbands?

[Jazzyclassy]

She's your sister, and you don't know if she's happily married ? What's that, another typical Muscovite trait  ?

Of course I know, I love my sister so much , I know things , just why shall I reveil   her private life in public 

[Bruno]

You say that she wrote: ""I didn’t want to spoil vacation and I’d liked to avoid useless conversations so I said nothing." The question, then, is which vacation she did not want to spoil: hers or yours?

Gabaub... do you know Russian people... my following comments are not only related to RW, it is true for Russian men too...

When Russian accept you like a "invited", they will make everything for you to feel confortable.. they will give you their last food if needed... of course, if you act like a asshole, you will never be a invited again...

When you date a RW on a WOVO, you need to be carefull on the sign... same if she don't like you, she will be the prefect host... so, if you don't wish loose your vacation time, you need to be carefull to the little sign...

About spoil vacation... i think "yours"... why ? Idf she was thinking only about herself, she will be away very fast and take vacation who are fun for her... Same if she was not really in love with our italian friend, she have be a "host" until the end... don't forget, we complain that we have not a lot of holiday each year... but several FSU people have only one week holiday year... why use it with a visitor that they don't like ?

[SANDRO43]

Of course I know, I love my sister so much , I know things , just why shall I reveil her private life in public 

Jazzy, either your punctuation is off (I do not know, they are happy"), or you fear RWD is like the KGB (sorry, FSB now) . No harm to anybody in saying your sister's happily married .

[Misha]

Gabaub... do you know Russian people... my following comments are not only related to RW, it is true for Russian men too...

When Russian accept you like a "invited", they will make everything for you to feel confortable.. they will give you their last food if needed... of course, if you act like a *snip*, you will never be a invited again...

When you date a RW on a WOVO, you need to be carefull on the sign... same if she don't like you, she will be the prefect host... so, if you don't wish loose your vacation time, you need to be carefull to the little sign...

About spoil vacation... i think "yours"... why ? Idf she was thinking only about herself, she will be away very fast and take vacation who are fun for her... Same if she was not really in love with our italian friend, she have be a "host" until the end... don't forget, we complain that we have not a lot of holiday each year... but several FSU people have only one week holiday year... why use it with a visitor that they don't like ?

Again, I have spent over 3 years living in different regions of Russia and I speak Russian fluently, so I think I know Russian people quite well. There are some wonderful Russian people and there are some Russians that I would try to avoid like the plague. The same goes for Americans, Canadians, Europeans, etc....

[Lily]

For how many days was that ? Next time you want to come to Holland it could be arranged to get better accomodation at the same price, or lower. But the food and drinks are expensive.

For about 10 days, and for the hotel it was about 850 Euros. Same hotel happened to have even less expensive rooms, I did not know that when I booked. Also I bought unexpensive airtickets as it was not the prime touristic time. Food is not that more expensive and there are always some ways not to spend a lot, especially if you avoid eating out.

About expectation of a lifestyle - well, I think that quality women can easily adjust to any circumstances. If she used to fly every year to Marbella, I would not say that she would expect the same or even better entertainment from her husband. After all, in Moscow there were her earned money, and she was the one who decides on what to spend them and on what not to spend. She should understand that he may be in different position, so if she wants to have an upgraded lifestyle, she has to work for it.

[Shadow]

It is reasonable, but as 'greedy Dutch' there are lots of ways to save, usually the same hotel rooms can be booked at different prices.
As for flight tickets, I used a flights through Italy a couple of times. You lose one hour of holiday time for about Eur 100.

[SANDRO43]

As for flight tickets, I used a flights through Italy a couple of times. You lose one hour of holiday time for about Eur 100.

That's a bit vague, Shadow, with what carrier, for instance ? Or are we blessed with thinner air, that makes a jet save on JP4 consumption ?

[Shadow]

That's a bit vague, Shadow, with what carrier, for instance ? Or are we blessed with thinner air, that makes a jet save on JP4 consumption ?

The carrier was Alitalia.

And just an anecdote from my first flight through Italy with Mila.
When the captain held his usual story in English and Italian, most of the Russians on board seemed not interested.
Halfway the flight, as usual, there was the cockpit report. After he finished Mila turned to me and asked why they did not tell the message in English. It cost me about 5 minutes to convince her he did. 

[mike_61]

In reply to the very first post here:

In the meanwhile she had taken one of her bad-mood spells, and it got much worse with the discovery that someone had lifted her purse from the bag while in the metro (darn! we had taken that metro at least a dozen times, and I was always at her side.

I don't buy that - I just don't think the purse was stolen in the first place. It was there all along, she just tried to get a little more out of you before departing.

[corp]

In reply to the very first post here:

I don't buy that - I just don't think the purse was stolen in the first place. It was there all along, she just tried to get a little more out of you before departing.

=================
I don't agree, if the lady was such a person to concoct a plan to
fake the theft of her purse to "get a little" more out of the guy.... why would she:
 a. run off to the Train station, with his flight leaving soon she had no expectation he would follow and when he did she never tried to shake him down.
B. If she was looking to "use" him she would have kissed him goodbye at the airport and then our OP would have more than likely started sending cash and prizes, believing all was wonderful.

No I am of the opinion that we have, two people who both came some distance met in Ukraine.. it did not work for one but rather than leave the floor before the dance ended, she stayed for the duration ..well almost.
(I've done the same thing myself)

Sure she seemed a little moody (which began before the theft of the wallet) but we basically have two people who were not a good match.

One might ask: how they spent that many days together and never caught on to or at least suspected that she was not into him (pretty much from the start)?
 It's not what she does at night that is telling, it is what she does at random that counts.

I admire this guys willingness to come on here and share the story.
I look forward to his Next one.

[2tallbill]

In reply to the very first post here:

I don't buy that - I just don't think the purse was stolen in the first place. It was there all along, she just tried to get a little more out of you before departing.

Very unlikely that a girl will spend days with you, take care of you when you are sick AND
have sex with you, only later to try to scam a few kopecks from you before she leaves.
Most girls won't scam you, those that do can't hide it for much time at all.

[ML]

Yes, a very strange story from the original poster.

I suspect he did give her money to cover her return trip including meals, lodging, etc.
He would have done this regardless if her purse was missing or not.

So I go with those who think he dodged a bullet.

[Trenchcoat]

I was a fool, that's the bare truth behind it all.
Today I received a message from her, explaining why she acted that way.
Basically, throughout the whole vacation she had not been happy with some things about me, and about halfway had decided that I was not the man for her, but, quoting her mail, "I didn’t want to spoil vacation and I’d liked to avoid useless conversations so I said nothing".
The theft was just the last straw and, together with her being tired and not feeling too well, made things go real bad. She had declined proudly my first offer for help when the theft was discovered, saying she hadn't lost much and had other money (while now she says that in truth she only had some small change left in her bag).
She had the idea that I was a greedy man and didn't want to beg for help, while on the other hand I was only too willing to help her and was trying to find a way to offer help again without sounding rude or offensive.
So, as it seems, deep incomprehension and guilt on both parties. I should have been able to understand her better, and been firmer (more "manly" perhaps?) in several things. And she was just too proud to speak her mind and let me understand what she really thought. All things that I was already aware of before leaving, but with my mind only... now I've experienced them on my living skin.
To quote her again:
"You can say that you nothing knew, that I should tell you and ect…  But you’re a not a little boy (though sometimes behave like a child), at least you must try to understand woman, with whom you spend a time and , on your words, you very liked. All your words about care was only words, you did nothing when I really need a help."
These things happen... now it's over, and it's useless to daydream about what could have been (anyway, a person capable of such drastic reaction would probably be a bad life partner for me). Still, I feel partly responsible for what happened, because it was my idea to take the metro that day when we could wait for the plane in other ways, and I was somehow unable to give her the help she needed. I shiver at the idea of the horrible day she has passed, with only a couple dollars in her hand and several hours to wait before a night train home (good thing she already had her ticket, and it was not stolen).
Certain thing, I need to grow more and become more mature, and stop believing women's words, especially when these words are "it's all right".
I thank you all again for all the good advice and support. Now I'll wait for time to heal my hurt feelings and begin looking again. Next time everything will be better!

I think both man and woman both buy into the dream when a meet is arranged of meeting their ideal partner, or at least someone who they will find acceptable as a partner.

So the hopes are often high. Even if video chat has been used sometimes that doesn't give each other a good enough idea of the person in a physical meet.

A meet for a whole week or longer get be awkward, even a day or a few days may also potentially be awkward if one or both are not into the other. It can often be too awkward to say anything on the date, so sometimes the girl may go into your guide mode to ease matters. A good time can still potentially be had but it depends how each other feels. Often feelings may be kept under the surface. Women may think men can pick up on feelings, signs of whatever but it can just all up confusing and unsure of correct interpretations by the man.

I wouldn't really say not to arrange such meets, they can work if two people are into each other enough and stuff can be learned. In my admittedly small experience though they aren't a necessarily ideal approach.

Bad experiences can be almost inevitable while dating but if a girl is into you she'll stick around, if she isn't it will be another reason to want to go.

I don't think there was any action OP could have done to save this. The woman just realised that OP wasn't the man for her probably despite her wanting him to be. OP shouldn't beat himself up over it or over analyse what went wrong, he just needs to try again. I don't think he was that far off in anything he did, possibly he could have volunteered to pay for her more in café, etc to avoid the stingy thought of hers as potentially that might be detrimental to a relationship if there was one there. In general though just not a hit on the bullseye 🎯