What difference does age make?

[tipperguz]

I have found from personal experiences that age and the age gap make a huge difference in whether a relationship will be a success or not. When I first arrived in Ukraine 5 years ago, I thought like many, that if you were a man that was good-looking, in good shape and had a good job, that you could reasonably expect to land a cute Ukrainian girl much younger than yourself. Well, the reality I have found is quite the opposite. After dating and conversing with literally hundreds of Russian & Ukrainian women, I have come to the following conclusions; (and of course there are always exceptions to the rule)...
1) No matter what your age as a man; 25, 30, 35, 40, etc... It is VERY DIFFICULT to find a Ukrainian woman under 25 that is really SERIOUS about leaving Ukraine and moving to America or some parts of Europe, no matter how much she digs you.
2) Woman under 25 still are under the strong wing of MOM. No matter how much of an inside edge you think you may have, if MOM says no, YOU AINT GETTTING THE GIRL. And if a Russian or Ukrainian girl says, I am free to do what I want, then there is a good chance she comes from a less-caring family. Think about it, would you want your daughter moving overseas with a 30 or 40+ year old man???
3) The age gap. Yes I see it has been worn out here in the forums, but I must insert my point of view, based on the women that I have dated and what female friends in Ukraine and Russia have told me. (And this is only in general, not all inclusive)
The generally accepted gap is 5 years, and many if not most women in Ukraine will stretch that to 7 or 8 years (10 years max) for the RIGHT guy. A smaller but still significant amount of woman I spoke to & dated said they would go up to 15 years max, for a super-hot guy (not necessarily rich). Some even told me that, you will search for years and years for a much younger woman, but in the end, you will end up with a women that is within 5 - 10 years of your age.
So, I find it amazing how the whole industry has created this atmosphere of fantasy for pure profits, at the expense of naive and unsuspecting Americans & Europeans. Yet, even though less women are willing to leave Ukraine & Russia, there are even more agencies online today than ever before. Less women + more agencies + more men than ever going overseas than ever before = The ideal environment for scams. The recession in America HAS put a damper on things a bit, and yes there remains a small handful of honest agencies and honest translator / guides, but many of these make their money from translations, and some even will set you up with potential good women for free, because there is little money to be made running an honest agency. Perhaps Tver Angels is one of the exceptions? Well, those are my thoughts, and hopefully they will have some meaning or impact on a newbie thinking about hopping into the adventure...
One additional point; Does it help to look younger? Yes and No! Yes, good looks & good health will help to create a long lasting happy marriage, along with other factors of course. And NO also, because, I have found that looking younger & being in good shape WILL help you attract younger women, but in the end, most women in Russia & Ukraine will adhere to the age gap max of 5 - 10 years. So, play the game accordingly. Maybe you are one of the exceptions, and maybe you are more willing and financially able to do so? To include, many Ukrainian & Russian women that come from a poor family structure or very very poor economic areas, or have little education are often more willing to stretch the traditional age gap, but in the end, it won't necessarily bring you true love....
...And, Scammers truly do come in all ages & sizes in Ukraine & Russia!

On a good note;
For all of us health buffs, there IS great reason to stay in shape though....

Aerobic Exercise Keeps You Young!
Sunday, April 13, 2008
British study found it shaved 10 to 12 years off biological age!

(HealthDay News) -- A person who maintains aerobic fitness may delay biological aging by up to 12 years, a new analysis shows.

Jogging and other types of aerobic exercise improve the body's oxygen consumption and its use in generating energy (metabolism). However, a steady decline in maximal aerobic power begins in middle age, decreasing about 5 ml/ (kg. min) every decade, according to the information in the analysis.

When maximal aerobic power falls below about 18 ml in men and 15 ml in women, it becomes difficult to do any activity without experiencing major fatigue. A typical 60-year-old sedentary man has a maximal aerobic power of about 25 ml, nearly half of what it was at age 20.

But research shows that a long period of relatively high-intensity aerobic exercise can increase maximal aerobic power by 25 percent (about 6 ml), which equals 10 to 12 biological years.

The analysis was published online in the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

"There seems good evidence that the conservation of maximal oxygen intake increases the likelihood that the healthy elderly person will retain functional independence," said study author Dr. Roy Shephard, of the Faculty of Physical Education and Health and Department of Public Health Sciences, at the University of Toronto in Canada.

Aerobic exercise also reduces the risk of serious disease and promotes faster recovery after injury or illness. Additionally, it helps maintain muscle power, balance and coordination, which reduces the risk of falls.

More information:
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has more about healthy aging for older adults.
-- Robert Preidt
BMJ Specialist Journals, news release, April 10, 2008

[roykirk]

I think obviously the age gap makes a big difference.  I am 11 years older than my girl, and I sense that it's about the limit for me.  Not only do I occasionally feel self-conscious because I know I look older than her, but if she were any younger we'd have nothing to talk about.  She already finds it an endless source of amusement that I actually remember when Breshnev was in power and when the Soviet Union was something outside of a history book.  My only saving grace is that I do stay in shape (run marathons, rock climb, kayak, mountain climb) and that seems to keep her sufficiently impressed and it allows me to keep up with her. 

I personally don't know how people can handle bigger age gaps.  Not having a go at them either...I just couldn't do it.  Much has to do with not only the age gap but also what the respective ages are.  There's a massive difference between a 24 y/o woman and a 40 y/o man trying to date and a 30 y/o woman and a 46 y/o man doing the same.  My best friend is 37 and living with a 20 y/o AW.  He's goggle-eyed over her, but I can't stand being around her for more than 5 minutes.  To each his own, I guess.

[docetae]

About age gap, there is something else...
Life is made of events, good, bad, children, separation, success, failure... All of them are making our personality, what we are today. Marrying a woman who has not had the same way trough life and even if she is the most mature person, this is to be confronted each time to the impact of change in her life, without knowledge of what can be the result... with experience, you know already what will happen and you can "manage" better life and expectations. From my point of view, this is to have less risk for the relationship.

From a physical point of view, if you marry a woman who is 20, you don't know how she will look when she will be 30 with 2 children ... the odds are higher to have your woman who is in her 30 looking the same when she will be in her 40... Me and my fiancee have the same age, we find a perfect balance.

[Serebro]

oh, no, another thread about age gaps

tipper, there are many many different factors that affect what you get.

one factor is what you want to get:a beautiful girl who will upbring your children and who you will show to your friends or a lifetime partner.When you look for  "a mother for your children-a girl to show to your friends" her being teenager is ok. When you look for a lifetime partner you should look for the girl who is close to your age.

PS: of course this forum is full of thousands of old men who married young girls, they will come soon and will tell something like that:" serebro is stupid, childish and immature, look at us, we are a perfect couple, married for 10 years, when I met her she was 14, only 10 years younger than my youngest son from the 5-th marriage, and she was very mature and looked for the man who would love her and a good provider, wanted 10 children and loved cooking..., blah, blah blah..." the story is endless..


I will give you an advice:look at their stories attentively, read their trips reports and you will see the difference.

[I/O]

they will come soon and will tell something like that:" serebro is stupid, childish and immature

The guilty run where none persue.

I/O

[roykirk]

look at us, we are a perfect couple, married for 10 years, when I met her she was 14, only 10 years younger than my youngest son from the 5-th marriage

Sarcasm is so underappreciated.  For clarification, you can only marry the 14 year olds in the hillbilly states in the U.S.     

[Lily]

 It is VERY DIFFICULT to find a Ukrainian woman under 25 that is really SERIOUS about leaving Ukraine and moving to America or some parts of Europe, no matter how much she digs you.
   
 

If your point is that age should probably be irrelevant, why do you target the under 25 women only?   

[tipperguz]

Hi Lily,
May I say you are a very nice lady, who I can see has contributed much useful information to these forums. As for my post, yes age is irrelevant, as I said, and I am not targeting only "under 25" women, however I am stating a fact based on my own personal experiences and those of my American friends that have dated and/or are married to Ukrainian women. Over 25, many more Ukrainian women seem to take a more serious interest in the prospects of moving to another country "IF" they are really in love with that special man. I hope I clarified that enough.
As for you Lily, hmmmm, from what I can see in your posts, you WILL find a great man (if that is what you seek), it's only a matter of time & patience, and I am sure that you will be successful. 

[DKMM]

Plenty of older american men here get younger second wives, although I'm not trying to say its common.  Its all about what you are looking for, and what you can get.  I'm taking the opposite track and not considering anybody over 24 this time around after not having success with anyone older.  But I am 30 so a 23 year old falls in that 7 year gap.  As for the mom factor, well that makes it more interesting doesn't it?   

[AugustD]

If you think might be an issue then you are right, it will be.  One former relationship with a woman from Ukraine and one current relationship with a wonderrful woman from Russia.  10 years and 14 years age difference respectively and never a thought or a discussion or an issue between us.  My former wife was 5 years older than me and it was never an issue...though we are speaking 15+ years ago.

I really dont get the issue of age at all.  Your parameters are your own and power to you.  I would say that women in their 20's generally are not as serious as older but when does anyone succeed making generalities about women?

As far as issues with moms...shows good character if a mom is leary.  I would be worried if they were not bothered.

[KenC]

I have found from personal experiences that age and the age gap make a huge difference in whether a relationship will be a success or not. When I first arrived in Ukraine 5 years ago, I thought like many, that if you were a man that was good-looking, in good shape and had a good job, that you could reasonably expect to land a cute Ukrainian girl much younger than yourself. Well, the reality I have found is quite the opposite. After dating and conversing with literally hundreds of Russian & Ukrainian women, I have come to the following conclusions; (and of course there are always exceptions to the rule)...
1) No matter what your age as a man; 25, 30, 35, 40, etc... It is VERY DIFFICULT to find a Ukrainian woman under 25 that is really SERIOUS about leaving Ukraine and moving to America or some parts of Europe, no matter how much she digs you.
2) Woman under 25 still are under the strong wing of MOM. No matter how much of an inside edge you think you may have, if MOM says no, YOU AINT GETTTING THE GIRL. And if a Russian or Ukrainian girl says, I am free to do what I want, then there is a good chance she comes from a less-caring family. Think about it, would you want your daughter moving overseas with a 30 or 40+ year old man???
3) The age gap. Yes I see it has been worn out here in the forums, but I must insert my point of view, based on the women that I have dated and what female friends in Ukraine and Russia have told me. (And this is only in general, not all inclusive)
The generally accepted gap is 5 years, and many if not most women in Ukraine will stretch that to 7 or 8 years (10 years max) for the RIGHT guy. A smaller but still significant amount of woman I spoke to & dated said they would go up to 15 years max, for a super-hot guy (not necessarily rich). Some even told me that, you will search for years and years for a much younger woman, but in the end, you will end up with a women that is within 5 - 10 years of your age.
So, I find it amazing how the whole industry has created this atmosphere of fantasy for pure profits, at the expense of naive and unsuspecting Americans & Europeans. Yet, even though less women are willing to leave Ukraine & Russia, there are even more agencies online today than ever before. Less women + more agencies + more men than ever going overseas than ever before = The ideal environment for scams. The recession in America HAS put a damper on things a bit, and yes there remains a small handful of honest agencies and honest translator / guides, but many of these make their money from translations, and some even will set you up with potential good women for free, because there is little money to be made running an honest agency. Perhaps Tver Angels is one of the exceptions? Well, those are my thoughts, and hopefully they will have some meaning or impact on a newbie thinking about hopping into the adventure...
One additional point; Does it help to look younger? Yes and No! Yes, good looks & good health will help to create a long lasting happy marriage, along with other factors of course. And NO also, because, I have found that looking younger & being in good shape WILL help you attract younger women, but in the end, most women in Russia & Ukraine will adhere to the age gap max of 5 - 10 years. So, play the game accordingly. Maybe you are one of the exceptions, and maybe you are more willing and financially able to do so? To include, many Ukrainian & Russian women that come from a poor family structure or very very poor economic areas, or have little education are often more willing to stretch the traditional age gap, but in the end, it won't necessarily bring you true love....
...And, Scammers truly do come in all ages & sizes in Ukraine & Russia!

On a good note;
For all of us health buffs, there IS great reason to stay in shape though....

tipperguz,
Interesting post.  I actually agree with a lot of it.  But you are correct when you say there are exceptions.  I had not heard anyone verbalize the "Momma connection" concept that you speak of here.  I only know of a few guys where the Momma nixed the union and those were very young girls (19 IIRC)
KenC

[2tallbill]

Good Grief, this topic has been beat to death a thousand times.

Here are the conclusions (based on my past readings) :
1.  Huge age differences are usually not successful.
2.  There are exceptions to every rule
3.  Young girls are too young to make a life long decisions (under
     25)
4.  There are exceptions to every rule
5.   An older man will have very little in common with a much   
      younger woman
6.   There are exceptions to every rule
7.   Enter another point here
8.   There are exceptions to every rule
9.   Enter another valid point here
10. There are exceptions to every rule
11. After this point people start calling each other names,
and civil discussion breaks down into a food fight.
12. There are exceptions to every rule
13. About 7 pages later Dan steps in and warns 3 people publicly
and about 7 people privately.
14. There are exceptions to every rule
15. 3 pages later 3 people are on moderated status, 3 are warned and one person disappears from here forever.
16. There are exceptions to every rule
17. I (and a few others) come in at a few different times saying something humorous and totally off topic, I get a couple of nice / funny replies and the food fight resumes.
18. There are exceptions to every rule
19. Someone will say something incredibly rude about someones wife. Global thermal nuclear war develops. The page count is about 17 now the trenches are dug deep and various factions align with others for maximum bloodshed.
20. There are exceptions to every rule

In the beginning of this forum there is a place that says use the search function FIRST BEFORE YOU START A NEW THREAD




Udachi (good luck),
Please don't kill each other, as I am fond of many of the members here.

Bill

[SANDRO43]

Bill, I take exception to your post , there are no rules, only exceptions.
And the above is no exception, it's a rule .

[Caperone]

I'm 27. Are you telling me that I'm wasting my time to try to get a mid-20 girl? 

[KenC]

I'm 27. Are you telling me that I'm wasting my time to try to get a mid-20 girl? 

Caperone,
Like I said up thread, I have only witnessed one or two girls get nixed by thier Mommas and they were 19.  If a girl is not mature enough to decide for herself, she probably isn't mature enough for marriage anyway. That is one man'e opinion and now you have mine.
KenC

[Caperone]

Your sarcasm detector should be blown off by now! 

I got reply from many women in that age. It's obvious that some of them are immature, fooling around or uncertain about leaving home. But I got some great replies regarding that matter too. No rules, only exceptions! 

[ISORW]

On a good note;
For all of us health buffs, there IS great reason to stay in shape though....

Aerobic Exercise Keeps You Young!
Sunday, April 13, 2008
British study found it shaved 10 to 12 years off biological age!

(HealthDay News) -- A person who maintains aerobic fitness may delay biological aging by up to 12 years, a new analysis shows.

Jogging and other types of aerobic exercise improve the body's oxygen consumption and its use in generating energy (metabolism). However, a steady decline in maximal aerobic power begins in middle age, decreasing about 5 ml/ (kg. min) every decade, according to the information in the analysis.

When maximal aerobic power falls below about 18 ml in men and 15 ml in women, it becomes difficult to do any activity without experiencing major fatigue. A typical 60-year-old sedentary man has a maximal aerobic power of about 25 ml, nearly half of what it was at age 20.

But research shows that a long period of relatively high-intensity aerobic exercise can increase maximal aerobic power by 25 percent (about 6 ml), which equals 10 to 12 biological years.

Although there is no question that maximal capacity decreases with age, studies indicate that the decrease can be far less than this article indicates.  Well trained athletes who continue training have been shown in studies to have aerobic capabilities well in excess of 50 ml at age 60.  This is a bit more than that 25 % don't you think (1.25 x 25 = 31.25).  A 5 ml decrease equates to (using that 50 ml at age 20 figure) 10% whereas very fit athletes in one study show an average decrease of 5% per decade (2.5 ml).  See http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/82/5/1508 for more info.

My friends father who is 72 still works out and regularly does hard 125 mile bike rides every weekend.  His body fat is 12% and he puts to shame many 40 year old men I know.  I teach martial arts and I still regularly hand 25 y.o. guys their asses in full contact no-holds-barred sparring (but I've also had my ribs broken by one of my 29 y.o. UFC competitor friends).  The point is that this article is more pessimistic than necessary - the effects of aging can be delayed much more than it indicates. 

[2tallbill]

Bill, I take exception to your post , there are no rules, only exceptions.
And the above is no exception, it's a rule .

Sandro, I agree there are not any rules. What I said there are exceptions to every rule therefore there are no rules.

It's just that we have argued this point from every vantage point already. Is there new profound information or arguments ?

Bill

[Lit_1nce]

It's just that we have argued this point from every vantage point already.

Even from space ? ..

What do the astronauts/cosmonauts think of a large age gap ?

If the older of the couple traveled at the speed of light and returned, how would this affect the relationship ?

I think there is more to explore here.. 

[ambach123]

I have done seome research,  and have personally talked to several agency owners in FSU.

There are some very honsest ones.

Here are my impressions.

1. The pursuit of RW is way down, please see the article in GQ about Jack Bragg and this pursuit in general; very accurate article. For various reasons the number of AM is about 20% now than it was five years ago, if not reduced even more.

2. More important than age difference is financial capapbility or lack thereof of the AM. Almost the first question the prospective RW asks is " what do you do? ". The days when just being American was good enough are gone for good.

3. I was suprised to learn how knowledgable RW are, most know that there is a recession in America, and for the most part younger Americans are broke. An agency owner in Ukraine, often recommended here, told me that most if not all of his AM clients were middle class to lower middle class. This is an expensive proposition in many ways, his warning was about money and NOT about age. Many RW are specifically NOT interested in younger men because of this. You may call them whatever you like, that is the way women are all over the world, the AW are no different. Women have looked for a good provider since the advent of time, and that trumps all.

4. Almost unanimously the agency owners in FSU told me that the marriage breakdown occurred because the RW had misconceptions about the financial situation of the AM. Any age difference she knows up front when she meets you. The fact that like most Americans you are deep in debt, is something she finds out only after she gets here. ( In fairness not all Americans are deep in debt, but most are). I think it is imperative that AM explains his financial situation up front, but most never do, and their lies the root of all problems in this pursuit.

5. The advise given was that AM should look for a woman over 28 for marriage. Why? Almost 90% of RW are married by that age, those not married are then looking for a foreign partner. Avoid all women under 25, and they make up about half of the women seeking AM.

In summation, I don't think age is the primary factor as long as you don't look for younger than 25. More important is your financial situation. If you are like the rest of middle class America, up the creek with the money situation, this pursuit is not for you, regardless of any age difference, or lack thereof. This statement was made by just about everyone involved in this process.

For whatever it is worth, one agency in Kiev claims that about 50% of their clients find a wife in their first visit, regardless of any age difference, there is only one catch, the agency is interested in only well to do clients. I don't know how accurate their claim is but I tend to believe them.

[docetae]

Even from space ? ..

What do the astronauts/cosmonauts think of a large age gap ?

If the older of the couple traveled at the speed of light and returned, how would this affect the relationship ?

I think there is more to explore here.. 

This depend of your referential. They are not the same for an AM and a RW

[I/O]

Sarcasm is so underappreciated. 

Even sarcasm, supposedly the lowest form of Witt has gradable levels. Some is below the line of pathetic.

The 4 millionth age gap thread? It usually polarises into about three corners, broadly speaking, those who say a guy with a wife more than 5 years younger than him is a pervert, those who want to cheer any dimwit onto destruction by saying, yeah yeah, you can do it, and those of us in age gap relationships who are probably totally hypocritical when we say, don't do as I did, do as I say, that is, don't do it.

My only advice to the wannabe's is there is a whole helluva lot more to it than whether or not you can match each other physically, .......... And.......if you need to ask what that helluva lot more is, then an age gap relationship is something you should avoid at all costs.

I/O

[tipperguz]

Intersting replies, but as most of us know, those on the forum threads here probably represent only a small percentage of all the men undertaking the "FSU dating experience". In any case, I will continue to post factual "real" experiences and conversations that I have had in real life, and perhaps my angle (2 cents) will be helpful to someone. I would like to see "real" statistics on marriage success rates, not what some agency says. As for "this thread subject is worn out", well, as a newbie once myself, I know how time consuming it can be to search for every thread or just the right thread, and I think that everyone is entitled to air their opinion, after all, times are changing rapidly in Ukraine & Russia, and we need to keep hearing the factual stories and experiences to keep up with the trends. As for the "mom" factor, in my actual experiences in dating 21 - 25 year olds, mom DOES play a big factor. As they get older, the women in Ukraine & Russia seem more inclined to do on their own. I was dating a 23 year old a few years ago (I was 35 then) and the mother insisted that we live in Ukraine, and it became a big problem. Yes each experience can be unique, but clearly there are trends occurring in Ukraine & Russia.
On the financial end, this has not been a major issue in my relationships, but I know there are many women in Ukraine that have distorted views of our financial situation. On the other hand, the woman that I am dating from Poltova is very smart, and she is well aware of our true financial situations in America, and her expectations are very realistic. Money seems to creep in every aspect of relations with a Ukrainian or Russian woman, from scamming to misinformation to unrealistic demands, etc, etc.. If you approach this upfront & honestly with each relationship then there will be no SHOCK later in the relationship, or after marriage and when your bride is already in America...
...It would be interesting to see how many men on here have or know a close friend that has successfully wed (married for at least a few years) a woman under 25 in Ukraine or Russia. I expect that there will be some, but not a large number....
.....If you keep the focus real, true you can find a gem under 25 or so, but she WILL be one of the exceptions.... As for a guy in his 20's, GOOD LUCK in finding a woman that is not only serious about moving to your country, but that will take you serious....

P.S. Good post Ambach123. We agree on many issues...

[Gator]

Ambach,

You consulted with agencies.  I consulted with UW and RW, and my observations are virtually identical to yours with some elaboration regarding economics and age gap. 

Caveats

I never dated an under-25 RW so I have no idea about them.  I met some 30-something RW who were not very mature.

I also did not date RW time who wanted to have babies and stay at home for the foreseeable future.  My time was exclusively with those looking for a brand new life to include some form of a successful career, whether sooner or later. 

Economics

With the group I dated economics is certainly part of the decision making equation.  However, it is not as if they are choosing the highest bidder which your term "financial situation" implies.

The women I dated were accustomed to taking care of themselves and will look for ways to continue to support themselves after marriage.  They are independent and had to be to survive some difficult times, frequently as a single parent. 

Do they need a man's money?  Yes and no.  These RW will need a man’s money in the adjustment period, they appreciate the security of his safety net if their endeavors to work are less that their expectations, and they understand that it could take years before they will reach their full earning potential and thus his financial stability is important.  In regard to "economics," they want something much more valuable than money – their husband’s mentoring and other support to help them succeed.

These women also have choices so her selected man must have attributes other than money.   The question remains of whether a RW is indeed feeling true love when she says “yes” to a marriage proposal, especially given the short time together amid cultural and language barriers.  Nevertheless, my opinion is that in general most are saying yes in good faith - hoping for love and willing to do her part to create a happy family, yet wanting to keep some semblance of being her own woman and not totally dependent upon the man.

Age Gap

I will get to age gap when I return.  However, maybe I have answered it when I mentioned "mentoring," "security" and "financial stability."

Number of AM Going to the FSU

You are correct that "the pursuit of RW is way down."   I disagre with tipperguz's "Less women + more agencies + more men than ever going overseas than ever before = The ideal environment for scams." 

[Serebro]

Sarcasm is so underappreciated.  For clarification, you can only marry the 14 year olds in the hillbilly states in the U.S.     

roy, where did I write about marriage?!!!!

I wrote"When I met her....
anyway the absense of sense of humour is terrible...