She wants me to send her money for her plane ticket....

[Doll]

Billy ... good one !!  LOL

clarkr, just curious, why is she "the luckiest woman in Ukraine?"

Apparently because Clark finally got the ticket for her

[ScottinCrimea]

Understanding that we have limited information about this girl, I am going to stick my neck out and present my perspective.  I understand that I may be completely wrong, but I think in at least a few details I will be right on.

Clark hasn't told us her age.  I'm guessing that she is in her early twenties.  Her constant texting, insecurity when he doesn't respond right away and her clinginess suggests someone of that age group.  She must be out of school for the summer or not working much, otherwise she wouldn't have so much free time.

I think she is a real woman and fully intends to meet him in Kiev.  I don't think this is a scam. I picture her as someone who sees this as an adventure more than a serious relationship.  Going to Kiev, especially by air, adds to the adventure of it all.  An older woman, dependent on her own resources to live, would think more frugally and go by train.  She sent her a scan of her ticket because she is accustomed to accounting for her spending to her mother.  I suspect she has never been out on her own, away from the support of her parents.

She doesn't want to meet in her home town because it is not as exciting and because she is worried about running into her friends and being seen with an older man when they hit the nightclubs.

So what do I think will be the final result?  They will meet, have a great time, and they will talk marriage.  By the second meeting, he will begin the k-1 and everything will seem to be going fine, but ultimately, when the excitement of the adventure wears off and it hits her that she must leave family friends and country to come to the US, she will develop those "cold feet".  To give up the support of her parents and trust a AM who she barely knows to provide for her will be too much, especially as he has shown some mistrust for her.

In either case, we consistently recommend that a person gets on the plane and gets his feet on the ground.  clark is doing this and we have to give him credit for that.  Even if things don't work out, he will have taken an important first step in ultimately finding the right RW for him.

So in various ways I have disagreed with both sides of this discussion.  Feel free to fling away.

[KenC]

WOW Scott!  That is one hell of a crystal ball you have!  Now please tell us who isgoing to win the next Superbowl while you are at it!
 
KenC

[kryten41]

Sounds more like Sherlock Holmes in Crimea to me!

[Doll]

An older woman, dependent on her own resources to live, would think more frugally and go by train.

Not at all

She sent her a scan of her ticket because she is accustomed to accounting for her spending to her mother.

She did it because Clark wanted her to. I am sure she was sick in her stomach.

I suspect she has never been out on her own, away from the support of her parents.

I bet she has.
 She is real, she will come to meet Clark. Nothing about futher steps- we'll see.

[ScottinCrimea]

WOW Scott!  That is one hell of a crystal ball you have!  Now please tell us who isgoing to win the next Superbowl while you are at it!
 
KenC

My odds are probably much better that I am correct in this than that the San Diego Chargers will win.   

I admit I went way out on a limb in my forecasting, and have no problem if I am wrong.  So the first question to be answered to see how far off I am is, how old is she?

[Shadow]

Scott, there is one detail that is already inconsistent with your forecast.
According to clarkcr she knows Kiev quite well and will show him. That indicates she might have been there on her own before which would be against the 'adventure' part.
Note that she received money for a round trip, but bought a one-way ticket. This means that her time and method of return is open.
This could be explained as wise in case the meeting does not follow expectations and she does not want to be stuck in Kiev with a stranger. It could also be explained as a way to return by train or bus at a time chosen and pocket the rest.

[ScottinCrimea]

Scott, there is one detail that is already inconsistent with your forecast.
According to clarkcr she knows Kiev quite well and will show him. That indicates she might have been there on her own before which would be against the 'adventure' part.
Note that she received money for a round trip, but bought a one-way ticket. This means that her time and method of return is open.
This could be explained as wise in case the meeting does not follow expectations and she does not want to be stuck in Kiev with a stranger. It could also be explained as a way to return by train or bus at a time chosen and pocket the rest.

Shadow, you make some good points and all are possibilities.  Was she in Kiev on her own or with her parents?  What were the purposes of her visits there in the past?  It isn't a typical vacation destination for Ukrainians.

Good point about the one way ticket.  Leaving the return open is indeed a good move on her part.  Perhaps she has done this before and learned from the experience?  That would also go against the adventure idea.

Keep it coming, I have no problems with being shown I might be wrong.

[Jooky]

Feel free to fling away.

Sure. I'll join in the fun.

She's in her early twenties. Check.

She's not a student because she's taking 10 days off in the middle of September. She helps her Mama out with her business.

Her mom owns a business and car. She has internet at home. She can text away all day at 30 cents a pop, send picture messages and phone her internet penpal. She doesn't need 200 bucks. She could get that from Mama. But Mama wouldn't let her fly to Kiev alone to meet an older American man! Mama thinks she's going with friends to a dacha for the weekend (Friday September 5th) so Clark is funding the trip to Kiev.

She's been to Kiev before. The train ride is fun with friends, but miserable alone. So she wants to fly. 200 bucks is for a one way ticket. She'll ride the train back with Clark.

She sent a scan of her ticket because Clark asked for it. She wasn't so sick to her stomach because she's been prepared by agency friends.

She's hung around an agency enough that she:

Knows about agency 'recommended' accommodations in Kiev.
Is familiar with picking up money at Western Union.
Is informed that it's normal for your paranoid western penpal to ask you for things like photos of your scratched legs and a scan of your plane ticket.

She's not worried about walking around with Clark in her hometown because:

She lives in city of half a million people.
She's used the agency enough that her friends know what she's up to.
She's received gifts from Clark (and maybe other men) at home so her Mama knows what she's up to.
Clark isn't too old or ugly and he works out. She giggles at his workout photos.
She's already planning to show off Clark for the second half of the trip, if things work out.

So why does she want to meet in Kiev first?

Because that's where the good shopping is!

[kievstar]

Most women in Ukraine have been to Kiev and Crimea.  So of course she is going to know the city.  Kiev is a very small village at least that is what the expat community calls it who lives there.  You can figure out Kiev in about 3 days.  Maybe more than 3 million people but it really is small as everything to do is in the city center.

It is a destination women in Ukraine like to go.  It is the only city in Ukraine to have high level restaurants, discos, and shopping.  Plus it is a beautiful city.  Most of the high paid jobs for women are in Kiev.  Foreign musicians who travel the world only play in Kiev they do not go to Odessa or Kharkov. 

Have people ever met a girl in Ukraine who has never been to Kiev?  If so, she must be less than 21 years old or lying.  Hopefully no one on this board who is looking for marriage is seeing / writing 21 year old girls.

Regarding the adventure part - you can go to same place for adventure.  These agencies girls meet a lot of strange western guys. The best guys in the World are not visiting them for the most part.

Travelling by train is not fun and you can get cheap tickets flying now. Plus she may want to see if your worthy of seeing her parents. Most people do not take people they never have met to see there parents or even friends.   People in Ukraine tend to gossip, be jealous, and insecure.  So being seen with an American man in a place like Mariupol is an event for her family.

This is interesting thread as you have people who think never give money until you marry / control a woman (more western thinking), men who have no idea, and men who are generous with there money (more Ukraine thinking).   

[ScottinCrimea]

Most women in Ukraine have been to Kiev and Crimea.  So of course she is going to know the city. 

I'm not sure that this is necessarily true.  My wife lived all her life in Ukraine with several trips to Kiev but doesn't know the city well enough to provide a tour.  She was there for reasons other than to tour the tourist sights and go to restaurants and nightclubs.  When we went there together we had to ask around to know where to go.  So the question still remains:  If a young woman from Mariupol knows Kiev well enough to be able to provide a tour of the fun spots, what was the nature of her previous trips there and who did she go with?  It's a long way and fairly expensive to go for a weekend shopping/eating out/club-hopping trip if one is from Mariupol and works for mom.

[apple47]

It's a long way and fairly expensive to go for a weekend shopping/eating out/club-hopping trip

       Of course if one had a bountiful supply of willing suitors that could foot the bill ,maybe numerous trips per year could be arranged.

                                                        ...Larry

[ScottinCrimea]

The knowledge of Western Union practices might be a good clue.  Why would a UW need to know this unless she was getting money from somewhere outside the country?  For example, my MIL knew OF WU but it took a fair amount of expoaining for her to understand the process.  Of course, as far as I know, she never had any foreign suitors. 

[Faux Pas]

The knowledge of Western Union practices might be a good clue.  Why would a UW need to know this unless she was getting money from somewhere outside the country?  For example, my MIL knew OF WU but it took a fair amount of expoaining for her to understand the process.  Of course, as far as I know, she never had any foreign suitors. 

Where are you going with this post Scott? Knowledge of the practices of Western Union? It's the fastest way to send money. I knew that when I was just a youngster. Knowledge of Western Union means well, absolutely nothing

[OlgaH]

she says she doesn't have the $200 for teh plane ticket and wants me to WU it to her today.

I just found that an airplane ticket Kiev-Mariupol cost $47 (so two way ticket should be $94)
accoding to:
http://www.kiyavia.com/rus/services/offers/

I guess that a ticket from Mariupol to Kiev cost twice more if she asks $200.

[KenC]

I just found that an airplane ticket Kiev-Mariupol cost $47 (so two way ticket should be $94)
accoding to:
http://www.kiyavia.com/rus/services/offers/

I guess that a ticket from Mariupol to Kiev cost twice more if she asks $200.

OH, OLGA, YOU LITTLE TROUBLE MAKER!
 
KenC

[OlgaH]

Oh, sorry, is my bad it was a ticket price to Kharkiv I'm so sorry

to  Kiev to Mariupil cost 468 grivnas - about $100

I'm sorry  I lost in the table.

Sorry Sorry Sorry

[OlgaH]

OH, OLGA, YOU LITTLE TROUBLE MAKER!

KenC

Yes, Ken I'm  :evil:

[Mishenka]

The reason I said to pay for this ticket yourself rather than send cash to her was to have some control.  You could change dates if needed. You could cancel and get a refund through your credit card company. You have proof of purchase and the exact cost, you might even save money over what she paid, plus on top of all this, the traveler would probably have life insurance included in the flight just incase of a rough landing.  Don't laugh they happen all to often. Anyway, all is fine. Glad it worked out so far.  Have the time of your life! Hope it works out in the future.

Mishenka

[ScottinCrimea]

Where are you going with this post Scott? Knowledge of the practices of Western Union? It's the fastest way to send money. I knew that when I was just a youngster. Knowledge of Western Union means well, absolutely nothing

Keep in mind that you are an American and this is more common here.  You can't equate knowledge of things in America with that of the FSU. Having said that, I do stand corrected.  I spoke with my wife about this and she says that maybe 5 years ago, this was true, but now there are even WU commercials on television and most people know of WU, if not the details.  She says that more and more people are working in Russia and use this to send money home so it is becoming more common.  Still, as I mentioned, my MIL in law knew of it but needed a detailed explanation of how it works.

As a side note, we have started using Moneygram instead.  It's a lot cheaper and there are now more branches in Ukraine.

Olga, a quick check of Aerosvit's prices shows a ticket to run around $200.

[OlgaH]

The reason I said to pay for this ticket yourself rather than send cash to her was to have some control. 

Mishenka

Agree. That is a good practice.

[OlgaH]

Olga, a quick check of Aerosvit's prices shows a ticket to run around $200.

I also took interest

Donbassaero Airlines: economy class Donetsk-Kiev-Donetsk in September - $366,60...

[Jumper]

hey its all silly speculation..

but jooky's about as close as anyone, in my mind,  from the outside looking in..


i dont gamble, but thats difinantly  the scenerio i'd lay my money on. 


either way i think she will indeed show ,and they will have a good time.

clark never did post her age, and that would likely be quite telling..

[clarkcr]

Alright.  I'm back.  Sorry it's been a busy week.  She is 23 years old...so yes, her SMSing behavior shows her age.  I'm 38 and have been SMSing people like mad since I learned how to do it 2 years ago.  I think it's great fun.  I even had to put an unlimited txting plan on my phone!  I'm a total juvenile...just ask Doll!!!

It is true in fact that she is still in school and she works for her parents in their own business.  So, she has much free time and can do whatever she likes.

She knows Kiev because she has an old school chum that she likes to visit there.  I have many pictures she has sent me from these trips.  This is inconclusive, but I am fine with spending a few days in this city.  By the way, she has sent me 115 photos since we began our hot and heavy correspondence!!!!  115!!!!! 

This girl is crazy about me and I am crazy about her.  I accused her of being a scammer largely because of opinions on this board.  I am foolish to take these opinions so seriously.  They have not been on the phone calls between us and have not seen the kind, trusting, funny, silly and personal pictures I have received from her.  I am an analytical person and there is inconclusive evidence (but evidence none the less) that statistically she could be a scammer.  Having said that, my gut, heart whatever you want to call it tells me she is not and she is head over heels for me.  I'm going with the later and closing my eyes in faith.

I have to commend and give credit to Jack Bragg for working with me in the background on this trip.  He is my safety net although I am denying needing it.  Thanks to him, I KNOW I will have a great time none the less. 

Jooky is the fortune teller and I think he has put spyware on my computer, so I need to have a word with him.  He knows things that I have not shared with the group.     Although her Mom knows of me and told her in the background today on the phone to "say hi for me".  Now, isn't that sweet?  Story from her is that she is ashamed to ask her mother for money.  She said she never has, and never will.  She does not want to spend 14 hours on the train and miss my arrival when I touch down on the 6th.  It's a one way ticket because our plan is to ride the train together to Mariupol after we are done with Kiev.

I'm not arrogant, but confident.  I am a great catch, just a little too sensitive and not resolute enough in my plans.  I am firm now and can't wait to hit the ground.  She WILL show.  She will NOT scam me and we will NOT go shopping.  If we do, I will buy her something because I will want to see her wearing it, not because she wants me too.  And if she does, that's fine too....she'll LOOK GOOD WEARING IT   

Doll is right.  I'm a heel for not trusting her.  BUT I do not agree with burying my head in the sand and blindly walking into something that has violated the First Commandment.  There is something to be said for being prudent.  Afterall, that is why I posted in the first place.  (Doll, I had something else written, but thought better of posting it!  Can we be friends?)  BTW, check is in the mail!   

I leave September 5th and return September 15th.  I will post from Kiev if I am able and update the thread. 

Also, the Western Union thing...I think she deals with that all the time in her Mom's business.  Doesn't really prove anything.  Great point, but inconclusive.

For all those interested:  STAY TUNED!!!

[Doll]

Good luck!