She wants me to send her money for her plane ticket....

[Misha]

The first time I went to visit my now-wife, she wanted to meet in Moscow, which is not her home town. Why? Well, she just didn't want to parade a man into her extended family's life until she had a much better idea of where we really stood together. Her family is close, and nosey !! .. LOL .  And it would have been humiliating to her if we had met first in her home town, met the family, and I dumped her !! Her view was - let's see what we've really got before we start advertising it.

How small is her home town? My wife and I dated for a couple of weeks before I met her family and she also did not want anybody to know immediately. However, we could still date without having to go to another city to keep it a secret. Unless a woman lives  in a town with only a couple thousand people, it is possible to meet someone for a first date and still be discrete about it.

[Doll]

 I've checked the price for her ticket, $200 is about right.
I am sure the guy already sent it.

[clarkcr]

OKAY!!  I'm back.......

I had no idea this would erupt into such a lively debate.  I think the reality-show camera crew is at my front door ready to accompany me!

Alright, some points of clarification:

The provocative picture thing:  I have NOT asked her for provocative pictures!!! She is one of the few that does NOT have them on her listing because she says, "I am a modest girl!"  Now, she has subsequently sent me a few said pictures...but I did not directly ask for them...originally....when I said, "Keep them coming", she said, "No, I am a modest girl".  or something like that.  The pictures she is most interested in seeing are of me working out (I still haven't gotten up the nerve to ask the guys at the gym to photograph me bench pressing!) and she wants to see what my grocery stores look like. 

The meeting in Mariupol vs. Kiev.  This was her idea.  She said that Kiev is a very romantic city that is filled with many things to see and do.  It is much nicer than Mariupol which I guess you guys agree is a shithole.  Being that as it may, she knows Kiev and wants to show it to me. 

Regarding my emotional attachment:  I am not in love with this girl...the clingness does bothers me a little.  I don't know if it's the apprehension on her part or just my smashing good looks.  Who could blame her?     That is what dating is all about.  Yes, I would travel to Dallas to meet a girl that seemed clingy on the phone.  Perhaps it would be indeering...I don't know.  That's the point.  That's dating.  It's far more indeering than some of the rough stand offish RW I've met already. 

My emotional attachment should be re-phrased to describe what would turn out to be my complete surprise that this girl could be so cunning and calculated in her scam as to string me this long for $200 bucks.  Someone said it....her SMS bill alone is more than this.  Net-net, this probably isn't even a break even for her.  If she's scamming me....I'm trying to say SHE 'S A DAMN GOOD ONE!!  She DOES have money and works for her Mom who owns a business as an import export agent.

So, it's NOT the $200!  I have sunk well over $600 in this already in just emails, phone calls, postage and whatever!  Then $1200 for the plane ticket and $600 on the apartment. 

Now, what could happen is she may contact me in the coming weeks and claim that the money was stolen or her plane ticket was stolen or something of that nature.  IF she does, I have a back up plan and three other girls that are warm leads I can go see.  Two of which are in the Donesk region and one is in Kiev. 

So, what are my odds?  Anyone keeping track?

I will keep everyone posted, as it's clear you all have now "emotional equity" invested!!   

[clarkcr]

Seriously, lets get an accounting of who thinks this deal is going down right and who thinks it's going down wrong.  I have been totally honest and have not left a detail out.  I will lean toward the "Going down right" column, but everyone here has laid out some pretty good evidence to perhaps make me rethink that. 

[BC]

The odds are always 50/50.  Either it works out or it doesn't.

[Gator]

I have sunk well over $600 in this already in just emails, phone calls, postage and whatever!  Then $1200 for the plane ticket and $600 on the apartment. 

I originally estimated 90-10, 90% for "show."  Now that I read the above, a red flag is being raised.  Clarification please.

You earlier said that you were SMSing and talking.  That suggested that you had somehow bypassed Anastasia Intl.  The $600 says otherwise, because $600for emails and phone calls in 1-1/2 months is absurd. 

If you are still paying AI fees for emails and phone calls, then my vote is changed to 25-75, 75% for "no show."  Why?  This "nickle and dime" approach is typical for some AI pro-daters.  They may even show, but are not really interested in getting to know you better, so that counts as a "no show."

And who arranged the apartment?

It is good that you have a backup plan.

Why do I still give you a 25% chance?  Your feelings and because you suggested that she is not one of AI's front window profiles used to entice men.

[Doll]

So, what are my odds?

don't search for troubles and you'll not get one

[dispozo]

There is a girl in Mariupol that I have been exclusivly talking to for the last month and a half. 

 

I have sunk well over $600 in this already in just emails, phone calls, postage and whatever! 

$600!!!!! I am with Gator

[Mishenka]

You need to learn to trust guys.
Lets look at this from another side: the woman is thinking of probably marrying you and you from the very beginning show your mistrust. Think of it.

Doll, with due respect, I agree with you and add this,  there is a 50% failure rate in relationships, it is not easy to learn to trust. Statistics tell us,  half of all fiance' visas filed by men in USA result in failure for different reasons and the fiance' returns to her home country.  Russians in general do not trust non family members outside their own front door,  let alone people from another country. Let's be real. No Russian woman I have been with trusted from the beginning. Trust takes time to build and earn from both sides.  We all have doubts and insecurities even after we are married.  After dating many RW,  all of them had issues with self worth, insecurities and trust. Not everyone is confident all the time. They may show confidence on the outside and we can all act the part, but deep inside we all question if we can trust someone with our life.

The small amount of money of $200 for a RT ticket from Mariupol to Kiev is reasonable.  Meeting in Kiev is a good idea but personally if I were her, I'd feel more safe with my family closer to me in case something went wrong.  I understand why RW don't want to meet in their home town, This is normal.  They want to keep their reputation safe from gossip.  Galina didn't tell any of her friends about me until after we met and She still keeps me a secret from most of them. Her reason,  she doesn't want to fuel the flames of gossip and ruin a chance at love. People can be cruel. Rumors cause problems at work, between families and friends. Privacy matters. Once we met she was introducing me as her husband already. I guess thats a good thing.

As for sinking $600 into the relationship already in phone calls emails not sure what that intails? You should  have her personal info in the first 2 or 3 emails so there are no further charges from the web site.  Skype cost us maybe $20 per month to talk for hours each day and night. This includes call forwarding to my mobile so Galina can reach me any time day or night. Speaking from computer is free, Speaking to her home phone is .02 per minute. Texting is less than 10 cents each.  How can he spend $600 in 45 days? hmmmm

Mishenka

[Doll]

half of all fiance' visas filed by men in USA result in failure for different reasons and the fiance' returns to her home country. 

Well, this is on agenda yet as we are talking of the first meeting.

[Doll]

How can he spend $600 in 45 days? hmmmm

He is just kidding. I am looking at the phone bill - my husband called me EVERY DAY while I was in Russia- and it is slightly more than $100.
Come on!
Even if it is $600 then $200 more is NOT the issue. It is a minimum price for the trust.
 

[Mishenka]

True, how can we put a value on trust or love in the first place? If I was in his shoes I would buy the ticket for her and meet where she is most comfortable.

[Doll]

Exactly!

[Shadow]

I give 90% chances of showing up.
And 80% chances clarkcr will have one of the most expensive weeks of his life.

[Kuna]

I give 90% chances of showing up.
And 80% chances clarkcr will have one of the most expensive weeks of his life.

hahaha... nice call - it could even go that way!

It IS a scam though, and some men in here (+ Doll) have no idea it's coming.

I just love the American attitude slipping into RWD though.  In days gone by when reality checks were delivered by the likes of jb you're see a man clue batted to an inch of his life for suggesting someone send the requested $200 - "because it's only $200".

Only a fool would think this way because anyone but a fool would realise an industry is built on this attitude!

This is a scam - guaranteed, and the more I read of it, the more I know it!

Clark, I hope your backups are better planned.

Sorry, but best of luck,

Kuna

[clarkcr]

no no no....I mis spoke.  When I said, "odds" I didn't mean it that way.....I meant what is the tally of those ov you giving me a success and those of you raising red flags.  To give odds is to look at history of being stood up, and there is no such history of this with me yet....so giving odds is not a reasonable thing to give.  I was more earching for a for/against score for humor sake.  That was all.

[clarkcr]

I originally estimated 90-10, 90% for "show."  Now that I read the above, a red flag is being raised.  Clarification please.

You earlier said that you were SMSing and talking.  That suggested that you had somehow bypassed Anastasia Intl.  The $600 says otherwise, because $600for emails and phone calls in 1-1/2 months is absurd. 

If you are still paying AI fees for emails and phone calls, then my vote is changed to 25-75, 75% for "no show."  Why?  This "nickle and dime" approach is typical for some AI pro-daters.  They may even show, but are not really interested in getting to know you better, so that counts as a "no show."

And who arranged the apartment?

It is good that you have a backup plan.

Why do I still give you a 25% chance?  Your feelings and because you suggested that she is not one of AI's front window profiles used to entice men.

Okay, I meant total out of pocket expense with ALL the girls I have sent AI mail to.  I haven't used AI with her in a good month.  In fact she told me she went down to her agency to tell them to remove her from their listing and they wouldn't do it.  She said they were upset at her for wanting to leave.  She explained she found someone and they retorted, "You have only listed with us for a month!  How could you find someone so quick".  This doesn't prove anything....just saying....I haven't contacted her through AI in over a month.  It has all been SMS, voice and post. 

I am still corresponding with two on Elena's Models (Russian Grils of Model Quality)  ha ha...that cracks me up   As well as three others on AI that I am working on weening off. 

[dispozo]

There is a girl in Mariupol that I have been exclusivly talking to for the last month and a half. 

 I am still corresponding with two on Elena's Models (Russian Grils of Model Quality)  ha ha...that cracks me up   As well as three others on AI that I am working on weening off. 

[clarkcr]

Thanks Kuna.  Trust me mate, I'm going in with my eyes wide open.  

The plot thickens!!

Just yesterday afternoon, I got an SMS from her saying she was in a car accident.  She said she was on her way back from where she parked her Mom's car and was in a taxi...?....do they park their cars miles from where they live???  She said the taxi driver was driving like a nut and hit another car.  

I started to laugh to myself and waited for her to SMS me that the money was stolen, or that she was in the hospital and needed emergency surgery,,,,,,,but you know what?  That call never came.  She said she had scratches on her legs and was feeling sick and needed to lay down.  I asked her to send me pictures of her legs (she hasn't yet).  

Now, this morning we have been chatting over SMS and she says she feels fine and is glad that it is all over.  

[Doll]

BS

[BC]

  As well as three others on AI that I am working on weening off. 

sp?

 

[Jooky]

When I read the first posts in this thread I got the impression that the 200 bucks is not the issue at all.

The problem is if Clark arrives in Kiev to find out that he's been scammed for a measly 200 bucks when it cost him over $2000 he will be devastated. Even with a back up plan, he'll likely be in no mood for properly following through and meeting other girls. Every girl will be suspect.

So Clark, what can you do?

I think the best is still to plan to meet in her hometown. Is it too late for this? You are already planning to go there after 4 days in Kiev, so why not go there first? She's already planning for you to meet her friends and family. Why spend a vacation in Kiev first? Does her mom know about you? Her city has half a million people, so I don't buy the 'running into neighbors' nonsense.

If you meet her in Kiev and don't click you might still be stuck with her for a few days. You will be responsible for her getting home. If you meet in her hometown and don't click, just hop on the next flight out of there.

If she absolutely refuses, then there is a problem.

Where are you 'backups'? In Kiev also?

Why did you say you were talking exclusively to this one girl at the start of this thread?

[BC]

I just love the American attitude slipping into RWD though.  In days gone by when reality checks were delivered by the likes of jb you're see a man clue batted to an inch of his life for suggesting someone send the requested $200 - "because it's only $200".

Kuna,

jb was indeed very often correct in his assessments.  Fact is, very few followed his sage advice which leads me to believe that sometimes it might be best for guys to learn from their mistakes the hard way.  Can't win with cluebat vs rock.

[KenC]

hahaha... nice call - it could even go that way!

It IS a scam though, and some men in here (+ Doll) have no idea it's coming.

I just love the American attitude slipping into RWD though.  In days gone by when reality checks were delivered by the likes of jb you're see a man clue batted to an inch of his life for suggesting someone send the requested $200 - "because it's only $200".

Only a fool would think this way because anyone but a fool would realise an industry is built on this attitude!

This is a scam - guaranteed, and the more I read of it, the more I know it!

Clark, I hope your backups are better planned.

Sorry, but best of luck,

Kuna

Kuna,
What we have here is a conflict of two well known "rules."  #1) Never send money to anyone you have never met 2) The man should pay for all the cost involved in meeting the woman.  Unfortunately, Clark painted himself into a corner with this one with his prior actions/offers.  But I do like the suggestion someone made up thread to use the money to pay for the ticket as opposed to sending the money to her.

I think it is a reasonable expectation for this woman to think Clark should pay for her travel expenses.  Her mode of travel (plane vs. train) is troublesome to me as most good RW usually choose frugal over personal convenience.
KenC

[ecr844]

A refunable (only to you) e-ticket which is also non-transferrable maybe a viable solutiopn to your dilemma..